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Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
- Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
-
Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
eggyk > 26-01-2026, 12:08 PM
Hello all, looking through the manuscripts on ecodicesNL I came across a manuscript with more "matches" in writing style than other manuscripts in the collection. I thought I would share them here, as there is a mix of some "VM-style" symbols, but also the usage of the letter styles found in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia.
Manuscript: Deventer, Athenaeumbibliotheek : 111 E 7 KL
Ijssel Region, First half of 15th century
Link to manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Usage of ß
Im not sure about how many dutch manuscripts have been found with this writing style and variance of symbols. In 15th century ijssel region, i would think that the native language of the author(s) would be somewhere on the spectrum between middle dutch, lower saxon or german, but i'm not certain. If so, the "so nim" section could plausibly be written by someone from the region.
This manuscript uses ß throughout the text. Was that symbol used in middle dutch, or was it a strictly german letter? Either way, perhaps relevant to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia "muß".
"Her" examples
There are many examples of "Her", with varied looping styles. To my untrained eye, most are similar to f17r for the H and E. The R is different. I would be interested to know the meaning of this word within this latin manuscript and the context of its usage. Many of them are captialised, but some are not.
Its noteworthy that many of these capital H's consist of a seperated left side stroke that is almost identical to the L mentioned later in this post. Perhaps the writer on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. began writing a H one word too early instead of L, noticed their mistake before completing the H and could simply leave it alone with the legible L intact.
Luēz̄ + additional ēz̄ words
The manuscript uses the ēz̄ ending semi-frequently through the text, including a potential luēz̄ match. Here are some examples along with many other words with the same ending; it would be helpful if somebody can tell what the ending represents across different words. If there is a clear usage pattern for the ending, it could shine light on the uncontracted spelling of "luēz̄".
Here is a word seemingly ending "uēz̄", which is the most relevant here.
Here are some other examples, most/all with "coēz̄"
Capital L examples, with diagnonal bottom
It appears that the author writes their capital Ls with a diagonal stroke at the bottom, similar in look to f17r. The L in this potential "luez" example isn't looped, but the author is inconsistent in this, shown in another example where different Ls are used in a single sentence.
Portat/Portas
Usage of different "D" symbols
EVA-like examples
These aren't voynichese words of course, but many words contain letters that have a similar style to EVA "n,r,s,u"
These are by no means an extensive list of examples; they are all throughout the text and the text is rather long. I do have page numbers for each of the images in the document I used to collate them, so if there is a question about one of them let me know and i'll provide the location in the document. Hopefully someone finds it interesting! -
RE: Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
ReneZ > 26-01-2026, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the link to this MS.
(26-01-2026, 12:08 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This manuscript uses ß throughout the text. Was that symbol used in middle dutch, or was it a strictly german letter?
Just to understand: the MS is listed to be in Latin, but did you find any Dutch text in it? -
RE: Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
nablator > 26-01-2026, 01:30 PM
(26-01-2026, 12:08 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here is a word seemingly ending "uēz̄", which is the most relevant here.
"sanguinem"
(26-01-2026, 12:08 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here are some other examples, most/all with "coēz̄"
"-cionem"/"-tionem": common Latin abbreviations. -
RE: Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
Koen G > 26-01-2026, 01:56 PM
I was never able to find any halfway decent matches in any French-Burgundian dominated region, nor in the northern Netherlands. It looks like this MS has various scribes though, and I suspect the relevant forms you found are not all from the same hand. -
RE: Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
eggyk > 26-01-2026, 02:03 PM
(26-01-2026, 01:16 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks for the link to this MS.
Just to understand: the MS is listed to be in Latin, but did you find any Dutch text in it?
I haven't specifically searched for it, but I don't think so. I mentioned it in case it shines light on the native language of the writer(s).
I did notice that one of the bible chapters was written as "Ozee", which was the same as in an old dutch bible that my family-in-law owns a copy of. (delfste bijbel 1477) -
RE: Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
eggyk > 26-01-2026, 02:19 PM
(26-01-2026, 01:56 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I was never able to find any halfway decent matches in any French-Burgundian dominated region, nor in the northern Netherlands. It looks like this MS has various scribes though, and I suspect the relevant forms you found are not all from the same hand.
Indeed, there are clearly multiple hands although the same hand does seem to be inconsistent in some ways (like the LL example). I found the capital L interesting. The only places in the text that has the L with a diagonal bottom stroke were used for proper names, or the names of bible chapters.
"Her" also regularly appears with a capital or a marking, but also without. Is it clear what the meaning of the word is in this manuscript? -
RE: Some potential matches(?) from dutch manuscript
eggyk > 30-01-2026, 12:02 PM
(26-01-2026, 01:30 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(26-01-2026, 12:08 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here is a word seemingly ending "uēz̄", which is the most relevant here.
"sanguinem"
(26-01-2026, 12:08 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here are some other examples, most/all with "coēz̄"
"-cionem"/"-tionem": common Latin abbreviations.
So within the context of this manuscript, the ēz̄ ending always maps to "nem"? I've seen people talking about "Lucem/Lumen", but wouldn't it be more likely to be Lunem?
A quick look at Wiktionary lists lūnem as the "first-person singular present active subjunctive of lūnō"; to curve or bend into a crescent or half-moon shape. So in such a case -if im understanding the grammar correctly- that would only work in a hypothetical sentence where someone was saying:
-I would/should/could/might/wish to (hypothetically) "bend something". I suppose it could make sense if you assume "mallior/meillior" as some variant of best/better, "aller" meaning "all (of them)".
"Better if I were to bend all of the..."
"If I bend all of the ... it might be better"
"Best that I bend all of the"
Im sure someone else here is far more qualified to tell me how plausible that is.
The only other close word i could find is "lůnem" from czech. "via the womb".