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Michiton or Nichil?

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• Michiton or Nichil?

• Michiton or Nichil?

  ErinaBee > 22-12-2025, 02:58 PM

  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. "nichil" update... - Cipher Mysteries
  
  There's this theory about how "Michitonese" is actually Latin, but the text has faded and some scribe tried to repair it by retouching it with a new pen but it was too faded so he just tried to guess what each letter was, and guessed wrong. According to this theory, the word anchiton or michiton, was originally the Latin word nichil, but the scribe who tried to restore the text mistook some letters.
  
  Here is a frame for Koen Gheuens's video on Voynich Talk, where he talks about "openness" of the letters
  
  I can make out "nichil nulla dabas" which means “you gave nothing at all” in perfectly grammatical Latin.
  Kone Gheuens says this is a charm. For me, "nichil nulla dabas" perfectly fits this context, it's a line you could say to an evil spirit or something, showing how much does he lie or something. ("You promised you'd give me something... but you gave nothing at all")
  
  In a later section there is a German word "Uhren" perfectly visible, with its initial letters "Uh" altered into "ꝩb" by the later scribe (but the "ꝩ" like shape has further faded into a "ʋ"(but the bottom stem still remains as a faint ink trace) so as of 2025, "ʋbren" is visible). Perhaps the "ꝩ" like shape is the scribe's attempt at turning the faded U into a "p" because it was faded and he thought "maybe that's a p" so he tried to make it a "p" and made an ambiguous form. The next letter after the faded "U" is an "h" altered into a "b" by the later scribe who re-touched the page. Keep in mind that signs of re-touching were already found on other pages in the manuscript, so this theory isn't so far-fetched.

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  ErinaBee > 22-12-2025, 03:46 PM

  Here is a reconstruction of the original pen strokes.

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  ErinaBee > 22-12-2025, 04:09 PM

  update: more accurate letter tracing

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  nablator > 22-12-2025, 04:37 PM

  (22-12-2025, 02:58 PM)ErinaBee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I can make out "nichil nulla dabas" which means “you gave nothing at all” in perfectly grammatical Latin.

  
  Not really. It looks like a word is missing, to explain the nominative feminine, something like "nichil nulla substantia est", but you would expect the accusative to go with dabas.

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  ErinaBee > 22-12-2025, 04:41 PM

  The feminine nulla can be:
  

  1. Elliptical, agreeing with an implied noun (e.g. res, substantia), or
     
  2. Pleonastic / emphatic, reinforcing nichil without strict classical concord.
     

  Both are normal in medieval Latin, especially in short, rhetorical clauses. 
  
  
  Medieval Latin often tolerates (and even favors) redundant negation, especially for emphasis.
  Comparable patterns you’ll find in medieval sources:

  • nichil omnino
    
  • nichil ullum
    
  • nichil penitus
    
  • nichil nulla
    

  From a classical perspective this looks sloppy; from a medieval perspective it sounds forceful.

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  nablator > 22-12-2025, 04:47 PM

  (22-12-2025, 04:41 PM)ErinaBee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The feminine nulla can be:
  

  1. Elliptical, agreeing with an implied noun (e.g. res, substantia), or
     
  2. Pleonastic / emphatic, reinforcing nichil without strict classical concord.
     

  Both are normal in medieval Latin, especially in short, rhetorical clauses. 
  
  
  Medieval Latin often tolerates (and even favors) redundant negation, especially for emphasis.
  Comparable patterns you’ll find in medieval sources:

  • nichil omnino
    
  • nichil ullum
    
  • nichil penitus
    
  • nichil nulla
    

  From a classical perspective this looks sloppy; from a medieval perspective it sounds forceful.

  
  You're copy-pasting from an AI chatbot... please don't. It knows very little about medieval Latin and is eager to please.
  
  If you can find any occurrence of "ni[c]hil nulla" in medieval sources that means "nothing at all", post it here. Chatbot's opinion without evidence is irrelevant.

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  ErinaBee > 22-12-2025, 04:59 PM

  The text also said: "...Uhren (altered) so nim gasmich ⋱⭘"
  
  the "Uhren" was altered (h as b, similar altered h is in a word "ahia" - "abia" earlier in the text) but it probably means "[number] hours, and then take goat's milk ⋱⭘"
  The "⋱⭘" mark is maybe an illustration of what to do with the goat's milk.

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  Aga Tentakulus > 22-12-2025, 05:33 PM

  It means ‘olla dabat’ ‘she gave’.
  Es heist "olla dabat" "diejenige gab"
  
  Die Leute sehen Sachen wo nicht da sind, aber was da ist sehen die Leute nicht.
  People see things that aren't there, but they don't see what is there.
  
  
     
  
  And it's not ‘gas’ either.
  There is only one ‘g’ in VM and that stands for ‘green’.
  The other two stand for ‘ez’ or ‘tz’. They are just written closer together. A “g” has a straight back compared to a ‘z’.
  The sentence is written as it is spoken,
  ‘v'bren, so nim tzas mich o’
  Gramatic correct,
  ‘v'bren, so nimtz as mich o’ typical Bavarian.
  
  It's not like a recipe where you have to take something.
  It's a warning that the curse can take you too.
  
  I think ‘michiton’ is a name.

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  ErinaBee > 23-12-2025, 12:14 PM

  how is this a "t" in "dabat"?

• RE: Michiton or Nichil?

  Aga Tentakulus > 23-12-2025, 01:53 PM

     
  
  This is about the sound and the sound shift (d/t). But if you want to see it as ‘s’, that's OK too. In the end, it's the same thing, just in a different form.
  
  However, I also see a reason why someone (taurus) writes with an ‘8’.
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