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[split] Did the VM go straight from cerebellum to vellum?
- [split] Did the VM go straight from cerebellum to vellum?
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RE: [split] Did the VM go straight from brain to vellum?
Jorge_Stolfi > 03-12-2025, 11:40 PM
(03-12-2025, 09:54 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Note that "imply ignorance" is your interpretation, not some universal truth.
Er, are there any "universal truths" about the VMS?
Quote:My take here is that the Voynich Manuscript, as we know it, could be a draft. Written on cheap vellum for some reason... Suppose, the author was traveling and keeping this draft with her/him and working on it. In the future after finishing the work and then maybe hiring professional scribes and artists to create the final book, the draft would no longer be of use, other than memorabilia. ... if the Author was traveling the world, maybe keeping it dry was not an option. Maybe a bit weathered appearance of the Voynich Manuscript is not from later neglect, but its original state from the time it was being created.
Well, so you are opening up to the idea that the Author my have obtained the contents somewhere else in the world. Good...
It does make sense that a traveler would write his travel notes on vellum with iron-gall ink to protect them from water damage. However, travelers had other means to do that, such as hermetic recipients.
The 13-ship expedition that "discovered" Brazil in 1500 included a professional scribe whose job was to keep records of everything seen during the trip. When the expedition reached Brazil, he sent an interim report back to the Court in Lisbon, by one of the ships. This report was a 23-page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in rag paper. Now, where would people worry more about water damage than on a transatlantic sail ship?...
But the VMS does not look at all like the notes that a traveler would write down during his trip. Such notes would have no decoration, and would use the vellum more fully, with narrower margins and no big blank spaces. The Pharma section could be such a draft, perhaps. Not the others...
Quote:And since we have no idea about the text, maybe the mistakes in the text are corrected or highlighted. The fact that we can't see corrections doesn't mean there are no corrections. Maybe each Sh means "ignore this piece and skip to next ch", who knows.
But, if it was a draft, why not just cross out that part? And how would he disguise insertions and reorderings, which are very common types of corrections?
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: [split] Did the VM go straight from brain to vellum?
oshfdk > 04-12-2025, 12:18 AM
(03-12-2025, 11:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Er, are there any "universal truths" about the VMS?
It is real. It has been around for at least a century. It has naked ladies. The collective effort put into attempts of understanding it likely far outweighs the effort put into creating it.
(03-12-2025, 11:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, so you are opening up to the idea that the Author my have obtained the contents somewhere else in the world. Good...
One of my authors is stuck in prison and needless to say is quite envious of your authors traveling the world.
(03-12-2025, 11:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It does make sense that a traveler would write his travel notes on vellum with iron-gall ink to protect them from water damage. However, travelers had other means to do that, such as hermetic recipients.
This is a so-called non-sequitur, the fact that there are other methods doesn't mean vellum is not a viable alternative. Also, ship scribes may still have a luxury of their own cabin where they can store their watertight containers and write on a proper desk, etc. The traveling author is a real adventurer, crossing deserts, mountains and rivers on a trusty horse or on foot and has to write the manuscript in places that offer no protection from the elements whatsoever.
(03-12-2025, 11:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But the VMS does not look at all like the notes that a traveler would write down during his trip. Such notes would have no decoration, and would use the vellum more fully, with narrower margins and no big blank spaces. The Pharma section could be such a draft, perhaps. Not the others...
These are not travel notes, it's a proper book designed and drafted while traveling. Maybe there even were paper notes for quick drafting and sketching, but these were temporary, because they couldn't survive the harsh conditions of the journey. The idea was to make it as close to the final version as possible while traveling and then give it to the scribes. There was also a charm on the last page, that should have protected the draft against nasty retracers, but it got damaged first and then was rendered ineffective by the very first attempt to retrace it. Alas.
(03-12-2025, 11:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But, if it was a draft, why not just cross out that part?
Because it's in a cipher and it is much easier to crack a cipher if you can clearly see one word being crossed out and replaced by another. Good cipher would even encipher the mistakes in the cipher.
(03-12-2025, 11:40 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And how would he disguise insertions and reorderings, which are very common types of corrections?
For only 0.5 Coynich I can make up a plausible way of doing this too. Payment upfront.
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RE: [split] Did the VM go straight from cerebellum to vellum?
Bluetoes101 > 04-12-2025, 01:12 AM
To the main question, and I shall adopt a "defensive curl" here..
Obviously not.
If it did you would have to somehow answer,
- Why did you do paint reminders/instructions?
- Why did you ignore them? - Your own instructions.
I think the crystal maze experts may find some answers, but they will not be more likely than "you didn't.".
I also think this casts some serious doubt on scribe = artist (edit, I should say "painter") too, for pages involved.
If we decide to say well.. maybe the painting was way later. Why do paint instructions then?
Maybe the paint instructions were later? - Why ignore them then?
The only options for me are (that do not need "..but with extra steps");
- Painter didn't really care much for your instructions
- Scribe accidently copied some instructions from things they were copying from
All avenues point to more than one guy, and not "brain to vellum". It had planning, and planning that some people ignored. - Why did you do paint reminders/instructions?