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A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
- A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
-
A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
BadBigX > 30-08-2025, 09:40 PM
Hello everyone,
I would like to share a new hypothesis developed with AI-assisted analysis (GPT-5). This is not presented as a final solution, but as a feasibility study suggesting that the Voynich Manuscript is neither random nor meaningless, but a systematic mixed idiom.
Core idea
The Herbal section shows consistent correlations between plant illustrations and recurring word families (morphemes). These morphemes appear to align with specific plant parts (leaves, roots, flowers). On mixed folios, the corresponding word families appear together, reflecting the illustrated combination.
Corpus examined
12 representative Herbal folios:- Leaf-dominant: f1r, f8r, f26r, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- Root-dominant: f2r, f6r, f16r, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- Flower-dominant: f9v, f16v, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- Mixed: f33v, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Findings- Leaves → morphemes like
saral
,
araral
,
sharal
- Roots → morphemes like
otal
,
otol
,
otaly
- Flowers → morphemes like
okar
,
okaly
,
okal
- Mixed folios → combinations (
otal
+
okaly
)
Linguistic parallels- Slavic roots (14th–15th century):
- otal
↔ kořen / korzeń (root)
- okar/okaly
↔ květ / kwiat (flower)
- otal
- Romance/Latin endings:
-al, -ol, -aly
resemble Latinized case endings.
- Possible Germanic influence: e.g.
saral
↔ kraut.
Interpretation
The VM text may represent a Slavic-based macaronic language, with Slavic lexical stems, Romance flexional endings, and some Germanic influence. This aligns with the cultural context of 15th-century Bohemia/Northern Italy, where such multilingual blends were common.
Conclusion
This is a testable hypothesis: the Herbal section follows a coded recipe logic, with plant parts directly linked to recurring textual morphemes. It suggests the VM is not nonsense, but an encrypted or deliberately obscured transmission of botanical–medical knowledge.
I would be very interested in feedback, criticism, and further testing of this approach.
The next step would be a full statistical evaluation of all Herbal folios.
(Posted under pseudonym for privacy – I’m simply interested in constructive feedback.) -
RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
Bluetoes101 > 30-08-2025, 10:07 PM
Taking the first example and using the voynichese website
"saral" - We expect a correlation with "leaves"
There are only 6 examples of "saral" and 4 have nothing to do with plants, in fact "saral" takes 140(ish) pages to show up and misses the entire herbal section.
There are 2 uses of it by later pages with plants. 1 looks solid, the other is likely "s aral". aral shows 16 times, s 244.
You would need to do a proper evaluation and present it, along the way you'll pick up on these inconsistencies. With base level checks like this missing, leaps to imply relationships with languages won't be taken seriously -
RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
tavie > 30-08-2025, 10:20 PM
[Edit -wrote this before seeing above post]
Hi BadBigX. Welcome to the forum. Thanks for acknowledging the use of AI and asking for feedback. Please read this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about why AI is currently producing garbage in relation to the Voynich Manuscript, and what our forum policy is regarding this.
ChatGPT does not scan folios, assess images, and compare words on a folio to that image. Instead it makes stuff up to keep the user engaged. So far, we've seen two key types of hallucination:
- it either tells a user that their brilliant idea leads to the solution of the manuscript and then creates fake Voynichese to "prove" it
- or it tells the user that their brilliant idea has revealed undiscovered patterns in the Voynich manuscript. These patterns are made up. Neither the AI nor the user is usually able to describe them properly, let alone prove their existence.
Your patterns are at least describable. And indeed falsifiable. We can look at each herbal folio ourselves and judge whether the assignments of leaf-dominant, flower dominant, etc, are utterly incorrect or too subjective to support the theory.
We can also check if the words you have given actually line up with the category of folio. Unfortunately:- folio 1r is not a plant page. This is becoming a signature of AI slop.
- The three words you associate with"leaf dominant" folios are in none of the folios you assign to be leaf dominant.
- For the three words you associate with "root dominant" folios, two of them do not feature in any of the folios you assign to be root dominant. The only one that does is /otol/ and this features once in two folios each.
- For the three words you associate with "flower dominant" folios, two of them do not feature in any of the folios you assign to be flower dominant. The only one that does is /okar/, and that is once in one folio.
You have a bit better luck with the two folios assigned as mixed, but we are still talking only one or two mentions when these particular clusters like /otal/ occur 300 times in the manuscript.
That's enough to be indicating that this is ChatGPT producing slop. You seem really open to feedback and don't seem wedded to this idea (often we get people arriving insisting they are 100% correct and only want validation) so I've kept this open temporarily for the moment. But it will have to be moved to the Chat GPT prison and locked unless you're able to show me why I'm wrong about the above.
Please do keep contributing but I'd suggest either staying away from ChatGPT, or if you must use AI, try to test what it is producing by comparing its claims to the manuscript's text. - it either tells a user that their brilliant idea leads to the solution of the manuscript and then creates fake Voynichese to "prove" it
-
RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
Kendiyas > 30-08-2025, 10:24 PM
[Edit- wrote this before seeing Tavie’s post
]
Prime example why you shouldn’t trust AI (yet).
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. doesn’t have any illustrations the leaves are from the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from behind. Also does not have any of the leave proposed words you mentioned.
Almost all Other folios doesn’t have any of the words mentioned. Also how is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. f6r root dominant? Have you actually checked them before posting?
As I said before prime example of AI hallucinations. You should check the things you are proposing before posting in my opinion took me about 10 minutes to refute all of this. -
RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
tavie > 30-08-2025, 10:38 PM
We need the feature you see in other boards where you are told something like: "Other responses have been posted to the thread whilst you were busy typing War and Peace: do you want to see them before hitting post reply?"
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RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
BadBigX > 30-08-2025, 10:38 PM
Hi all — thanks again for the honest feedback.
You are right: I mixed up enthusiasm with proper verification. I was so excited about the idea that I posted it too quickly, without doing the necessary base checks folio by folio. That’s on me.- f1r is of course a text-only page (no plant drawing). I wrongly treated it as herbal.
- “saral” is rare and occurs largely outside the herbal section. I retract that as a candidate marker.
- Several other word–folio assignments I gave are not supported either.
My plan now:
- Use the Takahashi EVA transcription / Interlinear Archive to extract per-folio counts for my candidate words (
otal*
,
okar*
,
okal*
, etc.).
- Verify the folio categories (root/leaf/flower/mixed) by actual illustrations, not from memory.
- Publish a small table with those counts. If there is no correlation, I’ll drop the idea.
— BadBigX - f1r is of course a text-only page (no plant drawing). I wrongly treated it as herbal.
-
RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
Bluetoes101 > 30-08-2025, 10:55 PM
I believe others have data regarding "word" and "subject" relationships, I would fish them out and see what they found and what you can add.
The Takahashi transcription is fine if you want to use it, but its rather old now and has quite a few errors. No transcription is perfect and I would say to learn the makeup of each glyph (if you do not already) and check the manuscript itself where possible. I find Rene's to be better in general - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It's not a bad line of research to go down or be interested in at all, you just got hoodwinked by ChatGPT on this run, I look forward to seeing the next, good luck with it
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RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
oshfdk > 30-08-2025, 11:27 PM
(30-08-2025, 10:38 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
We need the feature you see in other boards where you are told something like: "Other responses have been posted to the thread whilst you were busy typing War and Peace: do you want to see them before hitting post reply?"
It is there, kind of. When you do "preview post" before posting, it shows the up to the moment latest posts under the text field. -
RE: A new hypothesis: The Voynich Manuscript as a Slavic-based macaronic mixed language
tavie > 31-08-2025, 02:26 PM
Thanks.
Please start a new thread if you have further data/research to share. I'm moving this one to ChatGPT prison.