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Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
- Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
-
Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
TmSauca > Yesterday, 09:04 AM
Hi all,
Re: Folio 73v:
The human crossbowman's bolt points to the downward-star nymph (which is ~8-o'clock position). I believe this male/sun is pointing toward the female nymph telling us to invert what we are looking at. Thus, I propose the system inverts: the female/lunar counterpart across the 30 nymph ring defines the actual mapping. This would reframe the zodiac not as degree lists, but as lunisolar day mapping (29-30 days).
Some things that confirm my idea (along with some further thought on my end):
1. The inversion rule (Sun to Moon, and Male to Female) fits symbolic inversion practices of the 15th century; and the consistency of 29-30 nymphs per ring across the manuscript confirms a lunar cycle theory.
2. Sagittarius being a deliberate pointer to the downward-star nymph suggests to me intentional signaling.
3. The gender inversion also fits the broader symbolic traditions of the 15th century. The motif of the crossbowman matches Central European (Bohemian/Hussite-war era) iconography. I believe our author originated in Bohemia or was there during the religious wars, and that's why this book was created in the first place.
Some other thoughts I had:
1. Was the manuscript authored by a woman? Given the focus on cycles, or by a man with a medical/alchemical background?
2. Do the colored stars function as secondary markers (lunar/planetary, or cycle heaviness)?
3. Ultimately I suppose I'm curious if there are anomalies distributed in a way that supports the inversion model I proposed?
I would love to hear your thoughts on whether this model holds when applied across the other zodiac folios.
Happy hunting! -
RE: Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
TmSauca > Yesterday, 09:17 AM
(Yesterday, 09:04 AM)TmSauca Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Re: Folio 73v:
The human crossbowman's bolt points to the downward-star nymph (which is ~8-o'clock position). I believe this male/sun is pointing toward the female nymph telling us to invert what we are looking at. Thus, I propose the system inverts: the female/lunar counterpart across the 30 nymph ring defines the actual mapping. This would reframe the zodiac not as degree lists, but as lunisolar day mapping (29-30 days).
Some things that confirm my idea (along with some further thought on my end):
1. The inversion rule (Sun to Moon, and Male to Female) fits symbolic inversion practices of the 15th century; and the consistency of 29-30 nymphs per ring across the manuscript confirms a lunar cycle theory.
2. Sagittarius being a deliberate pointer to the downward-star nymph suggests to me intentional signaling.
3. The gender inversion also fits the broader symbolic traditions of the 15th century. The motif of the crossbowman matches Central European (Bohemian/Hussite-war era) iconography. I believe our author originated in Bohemia or was there during the religious wars, and that's why this book was created in the first place.
Some other thoughts I had:
1. Was the manuscript authored by a woman? Given the focus on cycles, or by a man with a medical/alchemical background?
2. Do the colored stars function as secondary markers (lunar/planetary, or cycle heaviness)?
3. Ultimately I suppose I'm curious if there are anomalies distributed in a way that supports the inversion model I proposed?
I would love to hear your thoughts on whether this model holds when applied across the other zodiac folios.
Happy hunting! -
RE: Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
Rafal > Yesterday, 10:40 AM
I wouldn't make here any long shot conclusions but you made me notice one thing.
All these nymphs are holding stars. Nearly All of them are holding stars raised up and only this one nymph pointed by the crossbow has the star lowered down.
And if you go from her to the upper circle then two nymphs don't have stars at all.
The funny thing about VM is that you may browse it some many times and still notice new things. -
RE: Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
Jorge_Stolfi > Yesterday, 10:34 PM
I see only one nymph without star (and without the left arm), the one on the outer band at 07:30. Msybe you mean the one at 07:00? That one has a star, but it is almost completely obscured by a smudge of green paint.
On the other hand, the star of the rightmost one at the top, outside the diagram at 12:30, does not have an inked outline. Instead the star is painted with the light yellow paint (which, on the other stars, is used only to paint a round spot in the middle).
Thus on this page there are 30 nymphs, 30 labels, but only 29 stars, including the one without outline.
There is another star with no inked outline, also "corrected" by the Yellow Painter, on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (inner band at 07:00). And another missing star on f72v2 (inner band, 01:00). And another one on f72v3 (inner band at 09:00). And two on f72r3 (middle band at 03:00 and outer band at 08:30). And another missing star on f72r2 (outer band at 04:00) and two without inked outline (inner band at 02:00 and outer band at 08:30). And on f70v2 (Pisces) there are only 29 nymphs and stars, but there is an extra star with a label in the central medallion.
The arrow of the archer in f73v pointing at the anomalous nymph is an intriguing detail. Still, I would guess that it was only a coincidence. My preferred explanation for all the anomalies above is that the Scribe just skipped arms and stars by mistake. The person who applied the light yellow paint noticed some of the mistakes and corrected them by painting the missing stars; but did not correct (or notice?) several others.
As for the missing nymph of Pisces, I believe that the Scribe miscalculated the space available and found, too late, that there was no space for the 30th nymph. So he just drew her star in the central medallion and wrote her label there.
Here is a detailed verbal description of f73v. (Note - still working on it.)
[pre]
DESCRIPTION
Page layout:
Six faint, mostly concentric, mechanical circles delimit
three rings of text (units û{R1}, û{R2}, û{R3}, outside-in). There
is a wider gap in the middle ring at 09:30, and faint radial
strokes cutting across the three rings at 09:00, 09:30, and 09:30,
inner to outer. Rene [07 Apr 1999] reports that the text in the
rings seems to have been written with a sharper than average pen.
Inside the inner circle is a beardless human figure, possibly male
(but not obviously so), apparently smiling, walking Westward.
The figure has a pointy chin and a dark smudge behind the head.
The figure is wearing a hat with round rim and a long veil or
plume falling down his back to waist level. He is also wearing a
shirt with ring collar and broad sleeves, closed at the wrist; a
flaring skirt, with heavy pleats and scalloped rim, down to knee
level; and pointed boots, reaching up to mid-leg.
The figure has on his right hand an armed crossbow, which is
pointing forward and a bit down. The crossbow's butt is hidden by
the archer's right arm. The left arm is stretched forward and down
too; the left hand seems to be open, palm up and thumb forward,
next to the right hand. The "barrel" of the crossbow is an
inch-wide bar, ending with a round bulb just under the bow's
attachment point. The barrel is supported by a rectangular board,
about two inches wide. The bow has uniform thickness for most of
its length, and then suddenly narrows down to wire-like
extensions, bent forward. The arrow has a large tip, which
intrudes into the inner text ring, sporting short triangular
"wings" near the shaft; and a compact, bulbous tail.
Between the figure's feet is an almost illegible word, possibly
"oct2..." in lowercase Roman letters (with a "t" resembling EVA "c",
and the "2" as a small superscript). The word may continue over the
archer's boots, but cannot be read.
Between the rings of text, there are two bands of naked female
figures (nymphs), 10 in the inner one and 16 in the outer one.
There are 4 additional nymphs standing on top of the outer ring of
text. There are extra-wide gaps in the inner band at 10:30, and in
the outer band at 11:00.
All of the nymphs are in 3/4 view, facing CW. All have full
breasts (except perhaps the one in the second-innermost band at
01:00). Most have light hair, shoulder-long or longer. None have
hats, but some have a narrow crown-like band on top of the head.
Almost every nymph has the right arm bent backwards, with the hand
resting on her back, buttock, waist, thigh, or hip; however four
nymphs have the right arm stretched back and down. The feet are
generally hidden behind the text ring, but sometimes visible.
Almost every nymph is holding a standard star by one of the rays, with
her left hand, slightly above her head. One exception is the inner
band nymph at 08:00, which is holding the star low, near the ground.
That star is partly behind a donut-like object right in front and to
the left of her left knee. Another exception is the outer band nymph
at 07:45, which has no left arm and no star. Also, three of the nymphs
at the top are holding the respective stars by wire-like tails. The
stars are proportionately about a foot in diam, with triangular rays
and a dark center.
In front (CW) of the nymph wo star (outer 07:45), there is a dark spot
near the ground, and faint smudges on either side of her head. There
may be also small moons next to the elbow of that nymph and the
following one (outer 08:30).
The star held by the outer 07:15 nymph is almost entirely covered
by an ink blot; a smaller blot covers the face of the inner 07:15
nymph.
There are two horz barrels, about a foot wide and three feet
long, lying on the ground behind the first two nymphs at the top
of the diagram. The barrels are crudely drawn, with strokes of
uneven thickness, and undecorated. The left end of each barrel seems
to be closer to the viewer.
There may be something drawn between the 2nd and 3rd nymphs
(11:30 and 00:00) at the top of the diagram.
There is a label just CW of each nymph (units û{S0}, û{S1},
û{S2}, outside-in).
??? Star with no outline
??? Nymph with no left arm
??? Nymph holding star down
The following table summarizes the nymph attributes. The "hand" column
gives the position of the right hand; a hour figure means that the
right arm is held more or less straight, in that direction relative to
the nymph. The "r" column is the number of rays in each star.
band label place hand r t notes
----- ----- ----- ----- - - ----------------------
inner S2.1 11:30 hip 9 .
inner S2.2 00:30 hip 9 .
inner S2.3 01:30 hip 7 .
inner S2.4 02:45 07:00 7 .
inner S2.5 03:45 waist 7 .
inner S2.6 05:00 waist 7 .
inner S2.7 06:00 hip 8 .
inner S2.8 07:15 hip 8 . face blotted out
inner S2.9 08:00 hip 7 . star held down
inner S2.10 09:30 butt 7 .
.
outer S1.1 10:15 08:30 8 .
outer S1.2 10:45 butt 8 .
outer S1.3 11:30 butt 8 . coronet
outer S1.4 00:15 hip 9 .
outer S1.5 00:45 hip 9 .
outer S1.6 01:15 hip 7 . no breasts?
outer S1.7 01:45 07:30 8 .
outer S1.8 02:30 hip 7 . coronet
outer S1.9 03:15 butt 7 .
outer S1.10 04:15 butt 8 .
outer S1.11 05:00 hip 9 .
outer S1.12 06:15 hip 8 .
outer S1.13 07:15 hip ? . star blotted out
outer S1.14 07:45 butt - . no star, no left arm
outer S1.15 08:30 hip 7 .
outer S1.16 09:30 hip 7 .
top S0.1 11:00 butt 7 t short tail
top S0.2 11:30 hip 7
top S0.3 00:00 hip? 8 t very short tail
top S0.4 00:30 hip 6 t star outline missing
There seem to be very faint drawings outside the diagram,
particularly in the broad bottom margin.
Rene [07 Apr 1999] observes that there is some green printout
on this page, but it doesn't come from f75r.
INTERPRETATIONS
It is not clear whether the radial strokes in the inner and outer
test rings are modern or original.
The archer's pointy chin may be a light beard, and the smudge
behind his head may be hair. Someone has identified the figure's
hat as a fifteenth century Florentine archer's hat [1,2].
A curious coincidence is that the two blots at 07:15 are followed
by nymphs with "anomalous" stars (one of them faded or reduced to
a low dot, the other held down by the nymph).
The "tails" at the top of the diagram may be due to the stars
having been drawn before the nymphs.
REFERENCES
[1] D'Imperio, page 7 (reported by Michael Roe).
[2] Brumbaugh75, page 349 (reported by Michael Roe).
[/pre] -
RE: Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
TmSauca > Yesterday, 10:59 PM
This is an incredible response, thank you!
What strikes me is the density and placement of these anomalies. On f73v, the archer’s arrow does not simply gesture “downward,” but aligns quite specifically with the nymph pointing about 7:30 as you mentioned. The only figure in the ring missing both her left arm and the star she would normally hold. The neighboring 08:00 nymph still has her star (though lowered), which makes the 07:30 alignment harder to dismiss as coincidence.
Across f72–f73, we then see a repeating set of “defective” or “corrected” stars (missing outlines, substitutions by the yellow painter, and outright absences) often concentrated in comparable angular positions. One or two mistakes would be easy to ascribe to scribal slip, but when the same class of anomaly clusters at key points across multiple diagrams, the odds of pure accident diminish.
This is why I suggested the possibility of a deliberate system: the anomalies aren’t scattered noise, they look like markers. If the zodiac section is viewed not just as thirty equal divisions but as a lunisolar cycle of 29–30, then the Sagittarius bolt and the 07:30 anomaly line up as intentional reference points.
I completely respect the caution of assuming coincidence, but I think the density and specificity here suggest we should at least consider design rather than repeated error.
I can't thank you again for such thorough response and your expertise clearly shows. Thank you for being so kind to me as a new entry here.
(Yesterday, 10:34 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see only one nymph without star (and without the left arm), the one on the outer band at 07:30. Msybe you mean the one at 07:00? That one has a star, but it is almost completely obscured by a smudge of green paint.
On the other hand, the star of the rightmost one at the top, outside the diagram at 12:30, does not have an inked outline. Instead the star is painted with the light yellow paint (which, on the other stars, is used only to paint a round spot in the middle).
Thus on this page there are 30 nymphs, 30 labels, but only 29 stars, including the one without outline.
There is another star with no inked outline, also "corrected" by the Yellow Painter, on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (inner band at 07:00). And another missing star on f72v2 (inner band, 01:00). And another one on f72v3 (inner band at 09:00). And two on f72r3 (middle band at 03:00 and outer band at 08:30). And another missing star on f72r2 (outer band at 04:00) and two without inked outline (inner band at 02:00 and outer band at 08:30). And on f70v2 (Pisces) there are only 29 nymphs and stars, but there is an extra star with a label in the central medallion.
The arrow of the archer in f73v pointing at the anomalous nymph is an intriguing detail. Still, I would guess that it was only a coincidence. My preferred explanation for all the anomalies above is that the Scribe just skipped arms and stars by mistake. The person who applied the light yellow paint noticed some of the mistakes and corrected them by painting the missing stars; but did not correct (or notice?) several others.
As for the missing nymph of Pisces, I believe that the Scribe miscalculated the space available and found, too late, that there was no space for the 30th nymph. So he just drew her star in the central medallion and wrote her label there.
Here is a detailed verbal description of f73v. (Note - still working on it.)
[pre]
DESCRIPTION
Page layout:
Six faint, mostly concentric, mechanical circles delimit
three rings of text (units û{R1}, û{R2}, û{R3}, outside-in). There
is a wider gap in the middle ring at 09:30, and faint radial
strokes cutting across the three rings at 09:00, 09:30, and 09:30,
inner to outer. Rene [07 Apr 1999] reports that the text in the
rings seems to have been written with a sharper than average pen.
Inside the inner circle is a beardless human figure, possibly male
(but not obviously so), apparently smiling, walking Westward.
The figure has a pointy chin and a dark smudge behind the head.
The figure is wearing a hat with round rim and a long veil or
plume falling down his back to waist level. He is also wearing a
shirt with ring collar and broad sleeves, closed at the wrist; a
flaring skirt, with heavy pleats and scalloped rim, down to knee
level; and pointed boots, reaching up to mid-leg.
The figure has on his right hand an armed crossbow, which is
pointing forward and a bit down. The crossbow's butt is hidden by
the archer's right arm. The left arm is stretched forward and down
too; the left hand seems to be open, palm up and thumb forward,
next to the right hand. The "barrel" of the crossbow is an
inch-wide bar, ending with a round bulb just under the bow's
attachment point. The barrel is supported by a rectangular board,
about two inches wide. The bow has uniform thickness for most of
its length, and then suddenly narrows down to wire-like
extensions, bent forward. The arrow has a large tip, which
intrudes into the inner text ring, sporting short triangular
"wings" near the shaft; and a compact, bulbous tail.
Between the figure's feet is an almost illegible word, possibly
"oct2..." in lowercase Roman letters (with a "t" resembling EVA "c",
and the "2" as a small superscript). The word may continue over the
archer's boots, but cannot be read.
Between the rings of text, there are two bands of naked female
figures (nymphs), 10 in the inner one and 16 in the outer one.
There are 4 additional nymphs standing on top of the outer ring of
text. There are extra-wide gaps in the inner band at 10:30, and in
the outer band at 11:00.
All of the nymphs are in 3/4 view, facing CW. All have full
breasts (except perhaps the one in the second-innermost band at
01:00). Most have light hair, shoulder-long or longer. None have
hats, but some have a narrow crown-like band on top of the head.
Almost every nymph has the right arm bent backwards, with the hand
resting on her back, buttock, waist, thigh, or hip; however four
nymphs have the right arm stretched back and down. The feet are
generally hidden behind the text ring, but sometimes visible.
Almost every nymph is holding a standard star by one of the rays, with
her left hand, slightly above her head. One exception is the inner
band nymph at 08:00, which is holding the star low, near the ground.
That star is partly behind a donut-like object right in front and to
the left of her left knee. Another exception is the outer band nymph
at 07:45, which has no left arm and no star. Also, three of the nymphs
at the top are holding the respective stars by wire-like tails. The
stars are proportionately about a foot in diam, with triangular rays
and a dark center.
In front (CW) of the nymph wo star (outer 07:45), there is a dark spot
near the ground, and faint smudges on either side of her head. There
may be also small moons next to the elbow of that nymph and the
following one (outer 08:30).
The star held by the outer 07:15 nymph is almost entirely covered
by an ink blot; a smaller blot covers the face of the inner 07:15
nymph.
There are two horz barrels, about a foot wide and three feet
long, lying on the ground behind the first two nymphs at the top
of the diagram. The barrels are crudely drawn, with strokes of
uneven thickness, and undecorated. The left end of each barrel seems
to be closer to the viewer.
There may be something drawn between the 2nd and 3rd nymphs
(11:30 and 00:00) at the top of the diagram.
There is a label just CW of each nymph (units û{S0}, û{S1},
û{S2}, outside-in).
??? Star with no outline
??? Nymph with no left arm
??? Nymph holding star down
The following table summarizes the nymph attributes. The "hand" column
gives the position of the right hand; a hour figure means that the
right arm is held more or less straight, in that direction relative to
the nymph. The "r" column is the number of rays in each star.
band label place hand r t notes
----- ----- ----- ----- - - ----------------------
inner S2.1 11:30 hip 9 .
inner S2.2 00:30 hip 9 .
inner S2.3 01:30 hip 7 .
inner S2.4 02:45 07:00 7 .
inner S2.5 03:45 waist 7 .
inner S2.6 05:00 waist 7 .
inner S2.7 06:00 hip 8 .
inner S2.8 07:15 hip 8 . face blotted out
inner S2.9 08:00 hip 7 . star held down
inner S2.10 09:30 butt 7 .
.
outer S1.1 10:15 08:30 8 .
outer S1.2 10:45 butt 8 .
outer S1.3 11:30 butt 8 . coronet
outer S1.4 00:15 hip 9 .
outer S1.5 00:45 hip 9 .
outer S1.6 01:15 hip 7 . no breasts?
outer S1.7 01:45 07:30 8 .
outer S1.8 02:30 hip 7 . coronet
outer S1.9 03:15 butt 7 .
outer S1.10 04:15 butt 8 .
outer S1.11 05:00 hip 9 .
outer S1.12 06:15 hip 8 .
outer S1.13 07:15 hip ? . star blotted out
outer S1.14 07:45 butt - . no star, no left arm
outer S1.15 08:30 hip 7 .
outer S1.16 09:30 hip 7 .
top S0.1 11:00 butt 7 t short tail
top S0.2 11:30 hip 7
top S0.3 00:00 hip? 8 t very short tail
top S0.4 00:30 hip 6 t star outline missing
There seem to be very faint drawings outside the diagram,
particularly in the broad bottom margin.
Rene [07 Apr 1999] observes that there is some green printout
on this page, but it doesn't come from f75r.
INTERPRETATIONS
It is not clear whether the radial strokes in the inner and outer
test rings are modern or original.
The archer's pointy chin may be a light beard, and the smudge
behind his head may be hair. Someone has identified the figure's
hat as a fifteenth century Florentine archer's hat [1,2].
A curious coincidence is that the two blots at 07:15 are followed
by nymphs with "anomalous" stars (one of them faded or reduced to
a low dot, the other held down by the nymph).
The "tails" at the top of the diagram may be due to the stars
having been drawn before the nymphs.
REFERENCES
[1] D'Imperio, page 7 (reported by Michael Roe).
[2] Brumbaugh75, page 349 (reported by Michael Roe).
[/pre] -
RE: Zodiac Inversion Hypothesis – Sagittarius Crossbowman as Guide to Lunar Inverse
TmSauca > Yesterday, 11:05 PM
The significance is that what has long been dismissed as scribal error actually encodes a functional lunisolar system. The nymph count irregularities and star anomalies are not random; they are how the manuscript tracks lunar days against zodiac signs. This reframes the section from flawed astrology to deliberate calendrical design.
That's my last two cents I guess. I can't wait to dive in more!