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• Month names collection / metastudy

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  davidma > 18-02-2026, 12:31 PM

  (18-02-2026, 10:53 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You should have access to the file now, David.

  
  That's them added, a couple were duplicates so removed them from the list.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  Koen G > 18-02-2026, 12:33 PM

  Beautiful!

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  DG97EEB > 19-02-2026, 07:01 PM

  I looked on the spreadsheet and couldn't see this one .. It's an abrell 
  
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  Planetbuch BSB CGM 7269 from Konstanz 1463
  
  
  Also, I came across this and it struck me as rather useful, given it catalogues iatromathematical hausbucher You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  davidma > 19-02-2026, 07:43 PM

  (19-02-2026, 07:01 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I looked on the spreadsheet and couldn't see this one .. It's an abrell 
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Planetbuch BSB CGM 7269 from Konstanz 1463
  
  
  Also, I came across this and it struck me as rather useful, given it catalogues iatromathematical hausbucher You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  
  I think more German month names would be good, I didnt really look for any since from what I saw we soon run into the issue of germanic month names (i.e. erste herbs herbstmonat, andere herbstmonat) that are absent in the VM. However, germanic manuscripts generally have some sort of Aberell/Abrellen for April and Ogst/Augst for August, which is what we're looking for. In my mind whoever wrote the month names spoke some sort of French dialect very close to a germanic influence in his daily life. To my mind this really narrows it down to either somewhere around French speaking Switzerland or the NE of france, from Savoy to Pas de Calais, through what was at the time the Duchy of Burgundy and all the smaller Duchies of Picardy and Hainault. Unfortunately, finding regional spelling of those month names from the 1400s and 1500s has been very very difficult.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  Koen G > 19-02-2026, 07:58 PM

  It surprised me that Sauvaget found two apparent instances of Augst in Norman sources 
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  It's a shame that both of them are in transcriptions, which are often unreliable. Still, it looks like north-west France must be considered, in which case English may be the Germanic influence that puts the g back in Augst. Or still Flemish from the north.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  schimmelchampagne > 20-02-2026, 12:15 AM

  The langues d'oïl certainly would've had a front vowel for the first vowel in the word for "July" by the 15th century. It seems bizarre to me to choose <o> to represent a front vowel. In my opinion this points south to a variety that did not undergo u > y.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  R. Sale > 20-02-2026, 01:26 AM

  What stands out to me is that the only 'green-light' term for "aberil' which is 'aberel' is one of the lowest scoring references in the list. It's a German language text, along with several other texts that show "ab*" variations found in other German sources.
  
  The simple reason that German sources score so low is that they use a different naming system for much of the latter part of the year. A person of Germanic background could have dropped the more Germanic traditional names and replaced them with their own preferences using Latin terminology.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  schimmelchampagne > 20-02-2026, 01:49 AM

  (20-02-2026, 01:26 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What stands out to me is that the only 'green-light' term for "aberil' which is 'aberel' is one of the lowest scoring references in the list. It's a German language text, along with several other texts that show "ab*" variations found in other German sources.
  
  The simple reason that German sources score so low is that they use a different naming system for much of the latter part of the year. A person of Germanic background could have dropped the more Germanic traditional names and replaced them with their own preferences using Latin terminology.

  
  I tend to think too much is made of the first <e> in "Aberil," which is probably just an epenthetic schwa. In my opinion the <e> tells us more about the person writing (that they were a phonetic speller) than anything linguistic. I suppose it could indicate that the person writing had a hard time pronouncing the /br/ cluster. I have wondered whether they were writing in their non-native language.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  Koen G > 20-02-2026, 01:40 PM

  I agree that this "e" is likely inserted for ease of pronunciation. But this is not something one would do if their native dialect easily pronounces "br"-clusters. If our hypothesis is that the person had difficulty pronouncing "br", this is due to their mother tongue, not some individual speech impediment. Hence, this insertion might still be useful.
  
  I don't know the phonetic quality of "u" in spellings like "apuril". I doubt anyone actually said "apooril". So it might be like French [y], a front vowel perhaps influenced by [p] or [b], which would also be epenthetic. 
  
  Our data shows that this additional vowel was sometimes recorded in writing. However, what we don't often find is that both the epenthesis and the p>b shift are represented. Since we find both in isolation though, it seems worthwhile to keep an eye out for their combination as well.
  
  
  About "o" in June/July, you make a good point. However, u>o would still need a sound shift, and we haven't found any instances of that. There is Sauvaget's astrolabe, but iirc, we don't know where that's from. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Month names collection / metastudy

  nablator > 20-02-2026, 02:31 PM

  (20-02-2026, 01:40 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.About "o" in June/July, you make a good point. However, u>o would still need a sound shift

  
  The pronunciations of "oin" and "uin" are very very close or identical now in (northern) France, they may have been more different in the past, but maybe not everywhere. Even without a sound shift the two may have been considered phonetically equivalent in some areas or (even more likely) by a foreigner having the usual difficulties with in/un/an/on/oin/uin.
  
  "joint" \ʒwɛ̃\ You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Several pronunciations of "juin": \ʒɥɛ̃\ or \ʒy.ɛ̃\ or \ʒy.œ̃\ (Canada) or \ʒwɛ̃\ You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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