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VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
- VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
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RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
Barbrey > 26-09-2025, 11:10 PM
(26-09-2025, 10:07 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As they say, it's complicated. It's a combination of factors. The artist is clearly making an effort to disguise things. At the same time, there is a great loss of cultural contact. We don't know what information the VMs artist(s) may have known about the relevant culture prevalent 1400-1450. When it comes to heraldry, the artist may have been using a means of communication of which the "reader" is not aware. Heraldic elements like the nebuly line and papelonny fur or techniques like heraldic canting [rebus reading].
Then there was Colette of Corbie, totally contemporary with the VMs parchment dates. Plus, the connection of Pope Innocent IV to the original Poor Clares. Can anyone provide a better illustration of Colette's dreams than the VMs artist? <Not me.> Considering that this was a time of contention, and being caught on the 'wrong side' might be bad for the old career.
That’s what I originally thought, that there was something heretical about it. Now I’m playing with the idea that if the author is following alchemy tradition of using Christ as a metaphor for the Philosopher’s Stone (aqua vitae) hen tthe covertness is to hide the Stone! Steganographia!Wheres Waldo? I can also never get past the idea that the whole manuscript is actually some grandmasterly test. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
R. Sale > 27-09-2025, 06:02 AM
In the VMs, one of the puzzles is 'Where's 'Baldo?' As in Sinibaldo for Sinibaldo Fieschi, who was Pope Innocent IV. He is found on VMs White Aries and recognized by his heraldic insignia and a number of other supporting factors. Indeed, it is a test of the reader's knowledge. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
Barbrey > 27-09-2025, 07:10 AM
@Koen as an addendum, something in support of your theory (and now mine) that the figure is Christ, is possibly the presence of the rainbow. There are a few rainbows in these pages, meaning something different each time in my opinion. I knew the story of Noah and the promise in association with the rainbow; I hadn’t realized to Catholics it had become a symbol of the incarnation of Christ, as the bridge between God and humanity. This fits so neatly I had to mention it. But maybe an anachronism? Many Christians today see the rainbow as this but I don’t know if they did back then. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
Koen G > 27-09-2025, 08:21 AM
It's not really Christ as the rainbow, I think. The rainbow is either the sign of the covenant (Noah) or of God's throne (Revelation). Even before I joined Voynich research, people were pointing out that double rainbows were mostly found in the context of God's throne.
In the context of "Q13 is stealing common biblical poses and compositions", I have a bunch more that I've never written about, and won't have the time for any time soon. Q13 is one of those places where everyone's entrenched in their own ideas and I find this an unpleasant and unrewarding space to work in. Plenty of other things to research
The double rainbow reminded me of this one though. It should bring to mind a certain folio.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
Barbrey > 27-09-2025, 03:44 PM
(27-09-2025, 08:21 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's not really Christ as the rainbow, I think. The rainbow is either the sign of the covenant (Noah) or of God's throne (Revelation). Even before I joined Voynich research, people were pointing out that double rainbows were mostly found in the context of God's throne.
In the context of "Q13 is stealing common biblical poses and compositions", I have a bunch more that I've never written about, and won't have the time for any time soon. Q13 is one of those places where everyone's entrenched in their own ideas and I find this an unpleasant and unrewarding space to work in. Plenty of other things to research
The double rainbow reminded me of this one though. It should bring to mind a certain folio.
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Thank you for the illustration and I see what you mean.
I’m not sure people appreciate what a treasure your expertise in art history, your interpretations and analysis have brought to VMS research. We don’t have anyone here like you. I completely understand though why you want to disengage from the unpleasantness. I’ve been the brunt of it myself, more than a few times, and it puts me off too. And by the way, I loved your “lady with a pool noodle” description- that about sums it up. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
R. Sale > 27-09-2025, 04:51 PM
Of course, the double rainbow is frequently used as Christ's throne in the depiction of the Resurrection. The question for VMs interpretation is why the 'throne' is unoccupied. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
Barbrey > 27-09-2025, 05:07 PM
(27-09-2025, 04:51 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Of course, the double rainbow is frequently used as Christ's throne in the depiction of the Resurrection. The question for VMs interpretation is why the 'throne' is unoccupied.
Good point. What do you think?
I didn’t know this was a double rainbow, it looks single to me. Am I missing something? -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
R. Sale > 27-09-2025, 10:00 PM
Which rainbow are we looking at? The one in Koen's post is clearly double - one for the seat and one for the footrest. And nice cloudbands btw.
The VMs has several rainbows of sorts. Is the text about meteorology and optics dealing with rainbows or is the interpretation more religious. There are other potentially Christian interpretations in this section: the Agnus Dei, Colette of Corbie; but there are also Classical myths from Ovid, Lady Necessity with her cosmic spindle, and the Muses in their half-arcaded fountain, plus pagan references in the form of mythical Melusine of Luxembourg.
Given that the artist has borrowed so widely, it's hard to see some more fanatical orientation pro or con for any specific perspective. It's more a like a collection of references from a wide spectrum of material and the VMs cosmos and the zodiac sequence expand it even further. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
Barbrey > 27-09-2025, 10:56 PM
(27-09-2025, 10:00 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Which rainbow are we looking at? The one in Koen's post is clearly double - one for the seat and one for the footrest. And nice cloudbands btw.
The VMs has several rainbows of sorts. Is the text about meteorology and optics dealing with rainbows or is the interpretation more religious. There are other potentially Christian interpretations in this section: the Agnus Dei, Colette of Corbie; but there are also Classical myths from Ovid, Lady Necessity with her cosmic spindle, and the Muses in their half-arcaded fountain, plus pagan references in the form of mythical Melusine of Luxembourg.
Given that the artist has borrowed so widely, it's hard to see some more fanatical orientation pro or con for any specific perspective. It's more a like a collection of references from a wide spectrum of material and the VMs cosmos and the zodiac sequence expand it even further.
Okay got it, thank you! Koen is talking about the one in the picture he posted, I was talking about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
Yes, I think I’ve read about all of those and even contributed a little. -
RE: VMs f75r - Nymph Holding Spurtle
Barbrey > 28-09-2025, 10:40 PM
(26-09-2025, 09:43 AM)quimqu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Note that the supposed man has several lines running down his left arm, giving the impression of a quick movement, as if his arm had just been under water and he lifted it out, with water trickling down. I find this remarkable, because all the other nymphs seem to be posing or making slow movements, whereas this one appears to have just made a swift gesture of pulling his arm from the water.
![[Image: NJGSomS.png]](https://i.imgur.com/NJGSomS.png)
Yes, I meant to reply earlier, I think you’re right, but I still feel the Christian pose is compelling, particularly if this is the double metaphor of Christ/Stone falling from heaven, and standing up after landing in the sap. The illustrator is doing at least two things at once with this figure, in my opinion, but that’s just my gloss on it to fit my theory.
I did another quick search on rainbows and found a comprehensive summary on them in medieval times art Art24. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There was no picture but this quote caught my eye: “The rainbow was not only the sign of the covenant but was also understood as a sign of the heavenly body of Jesus on earth (Nicole Oresme ca 1325-82)”. So this belief, prevalent today, is not an anachronism.
None of the other rainbow iconography fits the little rainbow on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , nor does it fit the rainbow stage of alchemical process, which I believe I’ve identified on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
But this description does fit this page given we have a possible Christ pose adjacent to a spike carrying figure (such spike being repeated, doubled, piercing a log on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , classic cruicifixion reference), and a canopy of heaven/terrestrial transition. I’m never 100% positive, but it hangs together for me if this is the double metaphor of Christ and Stone so prevalent in the alchemy of the time.
@R.Sale, Oresme again!