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Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

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• Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  Mark Knowles > 23-03-2025, 01:30 PM

  (23-03-2025, 11:58 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To be precise, this cannot be completely excluded, but I am indeed confident that it is correct.
  
  This is based on many years of study. It cannot be explained in the frame of a forum post.

  
  Have you ever studied in the Vatican archives?

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  VoyBear > 23-03-2025, 05:28 PM

  (23-03-2025, 10:10 AM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (23-03-2025, 08:42 AM)VoyBear Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Vatican archives

  
  
  It is a myth that the Vatican has a huge collection of secret manuscripts that it wants to keep hidden. Over the years the Vatican has put a lot of effort into cataloguing, indexing, microfilming, digitising the manuscripts of its archive and into their preservation. The Vatican Library is accessible to qualified scholars.

  
  So will they be kind enough to atleast tell us why they removed the original cover of the VM, why they reordered some folios and removed/destroyed the others ?

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  ReneZ > 24-03-2025, 12:09 AM

  (23-03-2025, 05:28 PM)VoyBear Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So will they be kind enough to atleast tell us why they removed the original cover of the VM, why they reordered some folios and removed/destroyed the others ?

  
  They did none of this. The original cover was removed by the Jesuits. People assume that this was done to make the MS look less conspicuous, but this remains an educated guess.
  
  Folios were removed long before this, and reordered even earlier, and nobody knows when or by whom.
  It is also something that has happened to numerous other manuscripts, due to damage, accident, carelessness or to take a sample. What the Voynich MS does not show (but many others do) is that parts of pages have been cut out.

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  RadioFM > 24-03-2025, 12:27 AM

  (24-03-2025, 12:09 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What the Voynich MS does not show (but many others do) is that parts of pages have been cut out.

  
  Interesting, but what would be the implications of it? I'm not sure how such information could point either to the hoax or cipher hypotheses.
  
  Side question: Was it common to cut out pages to take small samples of a MS, even if the material and content was deemed old/valuable, or would careful unbinding + taking out a bifolio or copying always be the first option?

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  ReneZ > 24-03-2025, 01:12 AM

  Dealers would often cut out particularly pretty parts (for example illuminated initials) in order to sell these separately. Occasionally books were sold page by page because that brought more money.
  
  

  (24-03-2025, 12:27 AM)RadioFM Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.what would be the implications of it? I'm not sure how such information could point either to the hoax or cipher hypotheses.

  
  I also don't see any.
  Here is an example from a MS that was in the same hidden collection as the Voynich MS (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  Mark Knowles > 24-03-2025, 12:32 PM

  (23-03-2025, 11:58 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To be precise, this cannot be completely excluded, but I am indeed confident that it is correct.
  
  This is based on many years of study. It cannot be explained in the frame of a forum post.

  
  You say that you can't explain this within a forum post. Have you documented or explained this argument elsewhere?
  
  Without even studying the material in the Vatican archives it seems a very bold claim that there can be nothing there linked to the origins of the Voynich manuscript. I certainly accept that it is possible that there is nothing there that can be connected to the origins of the Voynich manuscript, but I am very doubtful that you can say that with any degree of certainty.

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  BessAgritianin > 25-03-2025, 05:27 AM

  As far as I know there is a copy of Q2f14v.
  An  Italian man, whose name, if memory does not mislead me is  - Fabrizio had detected in antiquarian bookstore, and acquired ownership of it. He had protected it with authorship rights and now is selling different merchandise with its imprint (like neck-ties).
  The Copy is different from VM Q214v with :
  1. The roots- they are realistic and not like in Voynich -imaginary ones
  2. The alphabet- some different expression of some of the signs.
  
  Another text in Voynechese style is an image of a mandrake plant. 
  It is connected probably to the real magician literature.
  
  I was surprised to find out, that there are other magician documents with this similar glyphs- check the Voynch Ninja thread:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  ReneZ > 25-03-2025, 05:46 AM

  This is a relatively modern copy (with variations) of the relevant page of the Voynich MS.
  
  He likes to think that this is something that Barschius sent to Kircher. This cannot be proven or disproven just yet. The paint has been checked and it includes relatively modern ingredients.

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  Koen G > 25-03-2025, 07:46 AM

  Would there be any reason to assume that this was not made by someone within the last couple of decades?

• RE: Could there be more documents written in voynichese ?

  ReneZ > 25-03-2025, 08:04 AM

  I think that is more likely.
  
  There is one very odd thing though.
  
  The reverse has a wax seal (just as a stamp - it does not seal anything) with the initials A.G.
  This matches (coincidentally?) Aldo Gritti.
  
  That is more than weird. (Best Google for this name).
  However, I definitely do not suspect Fabrizio Salani of any involvement in that.
  He really hopes that this dates back to Prague and spent some money to have the materials tested.
  
  The parchment has not been dated - at least not that I know - as that would be very expensive.
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