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Let us count the days

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• Let us count the days

• RE: Let us count the days

  Bernd > 16-03-2025, 09:16 PM

  I like the hypothesis that Labelese represents numerals and that Voynichese can be reduced to around 10 chars. The idea that we are dealing with days/degrees here seems tempting. As said it's probably not that easy though. Maybe a hybrid system in which glyphs can have multiple roles?
  
  I also wonder if such system could negate the problem of ambiguous symbols and spaces. If it is clear which numbers make sense and which do not, as in days or degrees, the ambiguity may not matter. Overall I still see a problem with this if a vord could represent several numbers

• RE: Let us count the days

  ReneZ > 17-03-2025, 12:44 AM

  But what about these labels?
  
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• RE: Let us count the days

  davidma > 17-03-2025, 02:51 PM

  (17-03-2025, 12:44 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But what about these labels?
  
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  And also, if these labels are days/degrees, how do we explain the repetition of labels, not only across zodiac labels but also within the same folio? Example: take the Gemini zodiac, the label "okal" occurs as a label in the outer ring twice, and then again as a label in the Sagittarius zodiac. If it was a simple cipher where every couple of characters adds up to a number from which we derive the final sum value, how do we explain subsequent labels within the same zodiac? How can okal take two values between 60 and 90 degrees (if we assume these are degrees) and then appear again in the Sagittarius zodiac, which should contain degrees between 240 and 270? I do think these specific 30ish labels on each zodiac folio must necessarily have a connection with the 30 degrees of each sign. Still, I am interested in exploring how we can explain double-label occurrence in non-adjacent zodiacs.
  
  I'd also like to point out that okal is quite a common vord, and one of the "labels" of the 7 planets (?) names ruling the Zodiac signs on f67r2. No idea what to make of this as well, unless the same sequence of numbers can encrypt say Mars, 2 numbers between 60 and 90, and a number between 240 and 270 (unless perhaps the 2 is dropped?)
  
  Interestingly, I tried to map reoccurring, "adjacent" labels (as in in months that follow each other, with the idea that these labels must be the degree boundaries) within the Zodiac folios, and there are a few notable occurrences, for example, okedy appears in the Scorpio and libra zodiacs, "otaraldy" in the Gemini and taurus 2 (and these are the only 2 occurrences of the vord in the text), "okalar" for cancer and Gemini (and only 5 times in the VM, all of them in the astronomical section). 
  
  What I find really weird is that there doesn't seem to be a "sense" of the zodiac drawings, i.e. assuming for example otaraldy is the 60 degree (where Taurus ends and Gemini starts) they should have somewhat a similar position in the text, but instead it feels very random. I am confused about this and the double labeling and have been trying to think of how a cipher could encrypt 3 different values into a single vord ("okal" for example).

• RE: Let us count the days

  008348dc760f858fd668476b75fb6f > 25-04-2025, 10:37 AM

  Quote:And also, if these labels are days/degrees, how do we explain the repetition of labels, not only across zodiac labels but also within the same folio? Example: take the Gemini zodiac, the label "okal" occurs as a label in the outer ring twice, and then again as a label in the Sagittarius zodiac.

  
  
  Thank you for taking the time to write and apologies for leaving the response so late. Astrological tables attempt to convey several different numbers and reference figures. Yes days and degrees are one set of information. There are also golden numbers, days of the week, lunar cycles etc etc I've focused on the degrees and days as they seemed the most likely to bring up sequential numbers which could hopefully be spotted in the astrological folios
  
  Regarding the question of why would other zodiac folios also contain numbers referenced earlier, it depends on the context, they could reference alignments and compliments (conjunctions, oppositions, tines, squares etc). There's no reason for there not to be references to other astrological folios.

• RE: Let us count the days

  008348dc760f858fd668476b75fb6f > 25-04-2025, 12:32 PM

  (16-03-2025, 09:16 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I like the hypothesis that Labelese represents numerals and that Voynichese can be reduced to around 10 chars. The idea that we are dealing with days/degrees here seems tempting. As said it's probably not that easy though. Maybe a hybrid system in which glyphs can have multiple roles?

  
  In cryptography the first step is always to reduce the plaintext alphabet to numbers (e.g a=1) and work from there. If you think about Roman Numerals, they reuse letters of the Latin alphabet but within a certain context it is understood that they are numbers.

• RE: Let us count the days

  Dobri > 25-04-2025, 07:15 PM

  (16-03-2025, 10:27 AM)008348dc760f858fd668476b75fb6f Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  Looking at the center of the Pisces sign, we see two fish connected to a star with the word "otolal" (note: the Voynichese site lists this as "otylal," but closer examination suggests this is an error).
  ...

  The vord is shown correctly as otolal in the voyn_101 file.
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