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Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

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  • Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?
• Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Dobri > 16-04-2025, 09:28 AM

  The symbol combination cheodar occurs 7 times (in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (twice), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ).
  It is observed always in folios containing cheody, c'heody or both.
  
  The symbol combination c'heodar occurs 4 times (in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ).
  It is also observed always in folios containing cheody, c'heody or both.

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Dobri > 18-04-2025, 05:04 PM

  (08-03-2025, 03:49 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Probably this has been discussed elsewhere, but I couldn't find it. I've been reading about Hildegard of Bingen today, for some non VMS related reasons, and stumbled upon this miniature. Its overall composition seems somewhat similar to f86r4. I don't know if this used to be some common theme or not.

  
  Are the 9 layers in the lunar folio somehow related to the 9 Choirs of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.? 
  
     

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Koen G > 18-04-2025, 05:39 PM

  You can count those circles in several ways, but I'd agree that 9 is a possible outcome. The "Lunacentrism" would be bizarre though.

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Dobri > 18-04-2025, 06:41 PM

  (18-04-2025, 05:39 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You can count those circles in several ways, but I'd agree that 9 is a possible outcome. The "Lunacentrism" would be bizarre though.

  
  During the early 15th century, the Moon was considered the closest place to Earth where the Choir of Angels resided, followed by the Choirs of Archangels, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Dominations, Thrones, Cherubim, and finally the Seraphim (the highest Choir, most distant from Earth but closest to God).
  
  Since the Choir of Angels was associated with the Moon, artistic depictions featured Angels with moon-like halos and white robes.
  
  The following article, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., describes this medieval belief system. 
  
  

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Dobri > 19-04-2025, 11:31 AM

  Are the 4 persons depicted in the lunar folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. somehow related to the 4 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. associated with the four cardinal directions: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (South), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (West), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (East), and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?, North)?

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  nablator > 19-04-2025, 12:01 PM

  (19-04-2025, 11:31 AM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are the 4 persons depicted in the lunar folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. somehow related to the 4 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. associated with the four cardinal directions: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (South), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (West), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (East), and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?, North)?

  
  What's your source for the cardinal direction - angel associations? I've seen this variant before, but without a source. A claim without a source is not worth anything, especially when it disagrees with actual sources.

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Dobri > 19-04-2025, 04:52 PM

  (19-04-2025, 12:01 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What's your source for the cardinal direction - angel associations? I've seen this variant before, but without a source. A claim without a source is not worth anything, especially when it disagrees with actual sources.

  
  The earliest source seems to be the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.):
  "Just as the Holy One blessed be He created four directions and four banners corresponding to them, so, too, He surrounded His throne with four angels: Mikhael, Gavriel, Uriel, and Refael. Mikhael was to His right..."
  "Uriel to his left, corresponding to Dan that was in the north."
  "Gavriel before Him, corresponding to the kingdom of Judah, Moses, and Aaron, who were in the east."
  "Refael, corresponding to Ephraim. Why was his name called Refael? It was in order to heal [lerapot] the breach of Yerovam, who emerged from Ephraim that is in the west."
  
  Note that the directions are defined relative to somebody facing east. Therefore, the front is east, the back is west, to the left is north and to the right is south.
  
  However, in Christian iconography, Archangel Gabriel seems to be associated with the western direction and is depicted holding one or two items such as a staff, a speech scroll (phylactery), a sceptre, a mirror of jasper with an X, a lily, an olive branch, etc.
  
  If the lunar folio depicts four archangels, then the two objects held by the person on the left-hand side could possibly be in the list of aforesaid items.

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Dobri > 19-04-2025, 05:50 PM

  Note that all names of archangels end in -el where "el" (אֵל) is a common word for "god" or "deity". 
  This could possibly help in the decipherment of the text in the lunar folio.

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  nablator > 19-04-2025, 06:26 PM

  (19-04-2025, 04:52 PM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.However, in Christian iconography, Archangel Gabriel seems to be associated with the western direction

  
  "Seems". No source? One that would be available in the early 15th century of course, not something more recent. I'm asking because this peculiar arrangement was proposed before for the previous diagram on f85r2. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Eleven Moon Phases in Folio 86v?

  Dobri > 19-04-2025, 10:50 PM

  Concerning the lunar folio, perhaps this is a matter of the artist's viewpoint.
  
  Note that for an observer at the northern hemisphere, the moon folio drawing shows a waning moon (if the yellow color depicts the bright side).
  
  This is because the actual waxing of the moon in the sky is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
  
  To depict a 15° rising (waxing) moon, the drawing has to be flipped by 180 degrees about the vertical axis.
  
  Then the presumed depiction of Archangel Gabriel would be observed on the right-hand (eastern) side.
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