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Graphologist examination
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Graphologist examination
argo2001 > 24-11-2024, 08:43 PM
Simple question: Has the text ever been examined by a professional graphologist?
If so, are there any reports or conclusions?
The only info I found is that an amateur graphologist tried to decipher it in the 1600s. -
RE: Graphologist examination
argo2001 > 24-11-2024, 09:59 PM
(24-11-2024, 09:09 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would still be interested to know if you can use graphoplogy to determine the gender of the scribe. Opinions differ on this question.
I think it's easier to notice some patterns in modern era, because everyone is literate and writing with pencil or pen is very simple. Men tend to have rough sharp writing, and females tend to have rounded letters - but even then its hard to say.
I think it's impossible to read such details from quill and ink. It requires more concentration and conscious effort to write with it. Today we write basically unconsciously, therefore some patterns emerge.
What would the gender of the scribe change? I've read that there were female scriptoriums in Europe, do you want to pinpoint location? Or are you just curious. -
RE: Graphologist examination
bi3mw > 24-11-2024, 10:34 PM
(24-11-2024, 09:59 PM)argo2001 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What would the gender of the scribe change? I've read that there were female scriptoriums in Europe, do you want to pinpoint location? Or are you just curious.
It really is just curiosity at first. The point about female scribes in medieval scriptoriums is also of interest as it would support speculation about a (central) European origin. As a presumed commissioned work, however, nothing could be deduced about the content of the VMS. The situation would be different for a group of women from outside the scriptoriums. Perhaps we would then have the wise women mentioned by @LisaFaginDavis who wrote down their knowledge at some point, who knows.
Edit: The VMS could of course also have originated in a scribal workshop outside the monasteries. There is evidence that there were also female scribes there. Since they were also organized in guilds, one could also conclude that the origin was in one of the large cities. -
RE: Graphologist examination
Rafal > 24-11-2024, 11:55 PM
You cannot get the gender from handwriting.
You can rely on some stereotypes like the women being more "neat" but in many cases they may fail you.
Actually you cannot even be 100% sure if someone wrote with right or left hand - I needed to check it once. -
RE: Graphologist examination
argo2001 > 25-11-2024, 01:37 AM
(25-11-2024, 12:01 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The article and the research paper is not about handwriting at all.
The algorithm managed to guess the writer based on usage of certain words within a text he used, and some social media posts. -
RE: Graphologist examination
Scarecrow > 25-11-2024, 08:52 AM
As graphology is pseud-science, whatever it predicts from gender to intelligence wouldn't be really of any use.
On the other, forensic handwriting analysis might be of some use as it has some scientific base, but even using FHA the prediction of gender can be within the 45%-80% range. There are some evidence of gender differences in statistical research, and machine learning/deep learning and other large material techniques may improve this, but as we are humans and we all differ and change, even inside the 24h of a day, that even weather forecasts seem to produce more accurate estimations.
And of course, it is relevant to discuss which gender we are ultimately talking about?
"Although there has been consid-erable research on this area (age and gender detection fromhandwriting), it is still considered a challenging problem.Neither computerized analysis nor human experts achievedhighly accurate results for these tasks" - You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Graphologist examination
Koen G > 25-11-2024, 11:09 AM
The uncertainties cited by scarecrow are for regular text. Add some more uncertainty on top for whether anything at all applies to Voynichese.