• Options
• Login
• Desktop Style

Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

• Index

  • The Voynich Ninja
  • Voynich Research
  • Astrology
  • Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac
• Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  ReneZ > 15-03-2025, 01:30 PM

  There's even a pattern to this...
  
  f12 is missing and this is a herbal page.
  f74 is missing and this would have been a zodiac page
  f109+f110 is missing and this was a stars/recipes page
  f91+f92 and f97+f98 are missing and it is entirely likely that one of these would have been a pharmaceutical page.
  All of f59-f64 are missing and here we cannot really guess what would have been on them.
  
  Altogether it looks as if someone removed a sample of each type from the book.

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  Aga Tentakulus > 15-03-2025, 03:47 PM

  @Rene
  The one about the missing pages is an interesting compilation. Above all, it seems that something is missing from all topics.
  For me this is also a kind of confirmation that Quire 13 is all mixed up. For me it is actually 2 Quire (2x3 sheets), which leads to the conclusion that a whole sheet is missing.
  This is the only way the whole sequence makes sense.
  
  I wanted to write about it once, but I didn't. Now I'll probably have to explain it.

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  matp26 > 15-03-2025, 06:30 PM

  Firstly, Thank you! I've noticed I got two of the zodiacs pages mixed up when I spoke on the. I meant that Gemini Is correct for some reason I got mixed up there and I thought the one marked as December as potentially some unusual Aquarius I don't know what happened there. 
  
  

  ' Wrote:There is good evidence that unfortunately, two Zodiac signs are missing.

   
  

  ' Wrote: There is also codicological evidence that pages from the manuscript have been removed. This includes a page after the current Zodiac sequence. Of course, we cannot prove what was on that sheet (it's gone), but it must be taken into consideration.

  
  I was about to: disagree that it is incomplete, To speak on the differences between "The two bulls" They look different enough to at least consider that we may be looking at a complete zodiac/ I admit the difference in shape is subtle although, the coloration seemed to be intentional. Especially considering "Aries" and "Capricorn" Chiefly because; though unfinished, The colour of the zodiac was seemingly important enough to be in the coloured above some other elements on the page. And it is clear from Taurus page the intent was to colour all the (Angels?)
  
  I had considered this. I noticed immediately after the two missing pages. There is a three page extension on the very next page. Is it not possible this may have been a creative decision by the author, Or the book was damaged Prior to writing this? This isn't the only case of missing pages in close proximity to extra large pages. I found it to be the same for the Gigantic 6 page diagram, there seemed to be missing pages of the exact quantity. In this scenario, I Considered how I could be sure the author worked with the damage, So I looked to the 3 pages. There is a sizing mistake with regards to the rondels, The author/artist worked with that and squeezed two rondels together. I don't know if this was possible to "fix up" a book in this way in the 14th century, But I entertained the idea as if it might be. Since I don't understand the intricacies of velum binding. I'm unsure if two "tabs" indicate a single missing page or only two pages. 
  
  With the missing page one cannot say. My idea of self inflicted damage. Of course I didn't intend that to mean every page. Simply the ones where the missing pages coincide with extra pages. If in this location there was indeed a true missing page. Then logically we could assume three things it may have been, a) A preface to the next section b) A summary of the section we just went through (if we could read it) Or c) a 13th constellation. There is in fact a 13th constellation and month of the Zodiac, The snake. For obvious religious reasons this has become archaic and was not typically considered in that time period, But could be esoteric for those "In the know." All of these logically and contextually are possible. Edit: Or of course now I'm wrong D) the two missing zodiacs. specifically for that page. which is the most likely.
  
  

  ' Wrote:The fact that there are 12 now appears to be a coincidental consequence of the fact that Aries and Taurus were split over two roundels. Please see the replies to this recent thread for a discussion, especially Rene's reply. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 

   
  
  I like this very much, I think they have a fantastic grasp of the general situation. Of course, so much more well put together than my first attempt at putting something together. As any reader can tell. I would subscribe to the fact the "Frenchish" names are probably correct within the months. For the example given by Rene on Libra: They put forth a valid point on the generalization of a time rather than specific. Id like to add on that, The dates for Libra are September 23rd through to October 22 as stated. It seems the bulk of this month is within October. Which of course Rene goes into. It could have been simply perceived as the month of October since it largely took place in October. The coincidental evidence they provide supports this.
  
  I do agree this is likely a calendar especially given the context of the pages between the first part of the herbarium and this "Calendar" contextually this makes sense. You would need to know the time of year to perhaps locate these herbs, cultivate them even.
  I now admit I was wrong, sadly upon looking at the evidence. I relooked at the two Aries and the two Taurus they both have the same amount of stars. although the words next to them are different than those on the other version. Which I thought may have been intended to be the name of said star to them, but if the word changes on the next page. its likely that one cannot be a name, perhaps both
  I admit I was entirely wrong. I suppose not entirely. I did come up with (mostly) the interpretation of the zodiac just by looking. Which I suppose anyone on the planet can do.
  Although though the months are special in a agricultural setting and plants growing in the wild. It just adds more strangeness to the months that it appears twice. Even with labours in mind. which the calendar is based on that yet. But I think it has in mind harvest or cultivation of herbs specifically for some ritualistic/medical practise likely both. Which I'm sure is what its all about really at first glance.
  I left everything for posterity. So you can see my application of logic. Perhaps the ideas of the damage around the book are interesting, who knows)
  I now subscribe to the idea of missing zodiacs. Disheartened but not giving up. I have ideas about more than these pages!

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  matp26 > 15-03-2025, 06:46 PM

  @ReneZ
  [quote= Altogether it looks as if someone removed a sample of each type from the book.
  [/quote]
  I cant help but ponder why that may have been though it is a fruitless exercise.
  
  I wanted to meet the experts, to see if I was on to something) I aspire to be somewhat as concise and as well put together as you exemplified through your work. Asperger's really limits my ability to be cohesive, and frame things in a... easy to digest manner)) Its an endless work in progress

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  ReneZ > 16-03-2025, 02:43 AM

  (15-03-2025, 03:47 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The one about the missing pages is an interesting compilation. Above all, it seems that something is missing from all topics.
  
  For me this is also a kind of confirmation that Quire 13 is all mixed up. For me it is actually 2 Quire (2x3 sheets), which leads to the conclusion that a whole sheet is missing.
  
  This is the only way the whole sequence makes sense.

  
  I completely understand what you mean, but in quire 13 there is no gap in the pagination.
  If anything was removed, it was before the pages were numbered, so at a completely different time.
  
  Also, a quire of 5 sheets is not really that unusual. Quire 8, of which only two sheets remain, would also have had 5 sheets.
  
  Now it is still possible to speculate a lot... (I deliberately did not want to do that in the earlier post).
  
  The first thing is that f74 is rather likely to have been a foldout.
  Why?
  Because the other single-sheet quires are all foldouts (the three preceding ones).
  That would mean that on the recto there may have been the two missing zodiac signs, and on the verso the start of the biological section....
  Of course we do not know this. It is pure guesswork.

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  Aga Tentakulus > 17-03-2025, 03:05 AM

  @Rene
  I understand. But F74 or even Quire 12 have no influence on Quire 13, no matter what might have been here.
  The initial situation as it is, or was, tied.
  
     
  
  
  One thing is certain, sheet 1 has to go.
  Now we have a nice textbook introduction.
  New chapter with notes and markings for a new topic. (section).
  
     
  
  If you turn the page, you will see the extension. If you want to produce something more, such as beer or wine, you can no longer simply search for the individual substances, you have to grow it yourself. It all makes sense. So far.
  
     
     
  
  Based on Nick's statement, and recently also Lisa's, sheet 4 forms the centre of quire 13. In this sense, sheet 1 must precede sheet 4, but these must not be turned back as they interrupt the flow of the story and must form a separate quire. Now the suspicion arises that something is missing. Because the story has a leak.
  That's the overview in a nutshell.
  Try it out.
  Don't forget to set the printer on both sides and across.
  Preferably PDF and fold to the right side.
  
  Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  Aga Tentakulus > 17-03-2025, 03:22 AM

  What I wanted to say is that I'm not quite finished with the investigations yet. It could also be that a sheet or more was folded on the wrong side, which would also change the process.

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  Aga Tentakulus > 18-03-2025, 01:25 PM

  Let's move on.
  No matter how you organise it now. If You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the first page, which seems logical, then You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is inevitably the last in this quire, and it seems as if it should go on, but it seems to come to an abrupt end.
     
  
  Personally, I like the arrangement of the wide page. It has to go on somewhere, right up to the actual product. But it doesn't have to. But it's the best explanation.
     
  
  Since nobody is really interested in this topic, I'll leave it here.
  
  @Koen, put this somewhere in the Quire 13 topic, it doesn't belong here.
  
  Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  Hider > 18-03-2025, 03:37 PM

  (18-03-2025, 01:25 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No matter how you organise it now. If You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the first page, which seems logical, then You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is inevitably the last in this quire, and it seems as if it should go on, but it seems to come to an abrupt end.

  
  We can say with certainty that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the uppermost leaf, because it has the palm and hair belonging to the lady on leaf You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (see figure).
  
  
  Earlier researchers concluded that F78v+F81r is the uppermost pair (see figure).
  
  
  Based on the above, we can conclude that half of the sheets Q13 was stolen (lost) by intruders, and Q13 originally consisted of two  parts.

• RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac

  ReneZ > 19-03-2025, 12:52 AM

  It looks convincing, but we cannot say with certainty.
  
  Perhaps the continuations that cross the binding gutter are just doodles.
  
  In the first case, perhaps the fold was just not made in exactly the right place and some minor part ended up on the wrong side. (There are plenty of cases with drawing or paint disappearing in the binding gutter).
• Next Oldest Next Newest