ReneZ > 04-04-2024, 07:26 AM
(03-04-2024, 05:55 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(03-04-2024, 05:11 PM)merrimacga Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can we all agree that the VM is written fluidly by more than one hand?Certainly not.
I wonder why anyone would describe the text as "fluidly written". If fluidly means written "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view." then the VM's writing is the opposite, a mass of glaring irregularities: inconsistent spacing between words, so much that it is often impossible to decide where words are, with small unexpected gaps every few glyphs just because it is not weird enough (look at the first "word" fachys, it has 3 half-spaces), a wobbly baseline incomprehensibly changing direction often several time per word, often to avoid a gallows glyph on the next line, frequent unidentifiable glyphs on a continuum between r-s, o-a-y, etc.
Scarecrow > 04-04-2024, 08:01 AM
nablator > 04-04-2024, 09:37 AM
(04-04-2024, 08:01 AM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have always considered the irregularities that @nablator mentions to be traits of easy, fluid, writing.
Scarecrow > 04-04-2024, 12:19 PM
Quote:This strongly suggests to me that:
- the text of the VM is not a copy of an identical written text, that would be much easier to write fluidly without difficulties
- the functional (meaningful maybe) chunks of text are often smaller than a vord, the scribes often put a small gap (or vertical offset) consciously or unconsciously to separate them
Quote:- the scribes didn't always know (or care) where spaces should be: spaces don't matter.
Quote:All this together is consistent with a verbose substitution cipher or similar, where the ciphertext is written one glyph or several glyphs at a time, requiring a break (not on the page) after each functional chunk to get the next from a source that cannot be memorized.
Juan_Sali > 04-04-2024, 01:32 PM
(04-04-2024, 12:19 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.- the scribes didn't always know (or care) where spaces should be: spaces don't matter.Spaces matters in a cipher based on n-grams. Lets say that the cipher contains the folloing n-grams: 8 a r ar 8ar . They have differentes sizes and they also share glyphs. Spaces would be the only way to distinguish them. 8ar 8ar would be equivalent to 8ar8ar but not the same that 8ar 8 ar and not the same that 8ar 8 a r.
nablator > 04-04-2024, 05:16 PM
(04-04-2024, 01:32 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Spaces matters in a cipher based on n-grams. Lets say that the cipher contains the folloing n-grams: 8 a r ar 8ar . They have differentes sizes and they also share glyphs. Spaces would be the only way to distinguish them. 8ar 8ar would be equivalent to 8ar8ar but not the same that 8ar 8 ar and not the same that 8ar 8 a r.
ReneZ > 05-04-2024, 01:15 AM
(04-04-2024, 05:16 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Reasonable conclusion: spaces don't matter, they are only there to mislead: vords are not words.
MarcoP > 05-04-2024, 09:27 AM
nablator > 05-04-2024, 10:00 AM
(05-04-2024, 09:27 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Similarly, verbose ciphers that heavily depend on spaces like that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are ruled out. But verbose ciphers can be designed in such a way that space ambiguity is not a problem (e.g. by avoiding cipher sequencies sharing the same prefix).
pfeaster > 05-04-2024, 10:48 PM