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Animal and human evolution
- Animal and human evolution
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Animal and human evolution
juergenw > 21-02-2016, 07:05 PM
following on from my other post on the 'medieval carpenter' You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I'd like to open another thread closely related to that and the mermaid one. I deliberately didn't add it to the mermaid discussion (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) as I would like to draw the attention to the animals in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and not the mermaid/woman-fish hybrid.
Have a look at the animals in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. bottom right and compare with the image of folio 300v (The Hague, RMMW, 10 A 11, c.1475) in the attachment. I think the animals show a close resemblance even though I wouldn't dare an exact identification of the animals involved, however the principle looks convincing to me (and it is about animals in general and not particular ones)
f300v displays Adam and Eve (twice) which is described in more details in secondary interviews/blogs linked from the attached source . I aim to summarise these soon (if I get the feel and feedback that this is worthwhile and I am not completely on the wrong track).
How does the Mermaid/woman-fish hybrid fit in? As job found the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.with a woman emerging from a fish (the latin inscription next to it says 'et homo natus in piscibus') this is also about human evolution, so would fit the assumption of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. displaying the joint human & animal evolution...?
With the description of general evolution and the emergence of humans and animals from the -green coloured- Earth in both instances, another common point with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is debatable. The green, 'watery' base in both instances could display the evolutionary, 'swamp'-like (back)ground (much later a perfectly fitting German word would describe this as 'Ursuppe').
Again, any comments are much appreciated. -
RE: Animal and human evolution
juergenw > 21-02-2016, 08:59 PM
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RE: Animal and human evolution
david > 21-02-2016, 09:20 PM
I don't think evolution is the correct term for the sources you are describing. They are talking about creation, not evolution as we would understand it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "et homo natus in piscibis" bit actually describing people born in Pisces, not people born from fish? There are other astrological signs on the preceeding pages (Capricorn, Gemini). -
RE: Animal and human evolution
juergenw > 21-02-2016, 09:30 PM
(21-02-2016, 09:20 PM)david Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't think evolution is the correct term for the sources you are describing. They are talking about creation, not evolution as we would understand it.
you are right, creation is the better term.
The translation could refer to people born under Pisces, not via fish. However, I believe that could be a nice cunning word play? -
RE: Animal and human evolution
david > 21-02-2016, 09:34 PM
Do you know if there's a transcription online? -
RE: Animal and human evolution
juergenw > 21-02-2016, 11:55 PM
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RE: Animal and human evolution
MarcoP > 22-02-2016, 10:31 AM
Hello Jurgen,
I discussed Job's "mermaid" (Losbuch Ms. germ. fol. 642) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
In my opinion, the image actually represents a man: Jonah emerging from the whale. This is confirmed by examining the other images of this Zodiac cycle: each image includes the Zodiac sign, labors of the month and a biblical scene.
I don't know the origin of the text, but it clearly is astrological and describes the destiny of people born in the different signs: "Et homo natus in Piscibus amabilis erit, multum ambulabit, honesta vita tractabit, erit officiosum et officia sua erunt grata" - "And the man born in Pisces will be amiable, will travel much, will lead a honest life, he will be active and his actions will be appreciated".
I just noticed that this specific association of Biblical episodes with zodiac signs seems to derive from Bede (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 16):
Aries, Abraham, because of the ram that was sacrificed to God instead of his son
Taurus, Iacob, who, like a bull, fought against the angel on mount Bethel
Gemini, Adam and Eve, because in paradise they were made from a single body.
Cancer, prophet Job, because he had cancer.
Leo, Daniel, who was in the lion's den
Virgo, Maria, who had a son and remained a virgin.
Libra, Iudas Scarioth, who weighted with scales the price of the Saviour
Scorpio, Pharao, who was submerged in the sea because of his greed.
Sagittarius, David, who fought against Goliah
Capricornus, Esau, who lost his bliss for eagerness to hunt and for goats
Aquarius, Ioannis Baptistae, who baptized the Saviour in the river Jordan
Pisces, Ionas the prophet, who remained in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights
(Bede confirms the "mermaid" as Jonah “Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. ” - Book of Jonah, 1,13).
The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does not represent Adam and Eve. It illustrates Augustine's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: the Earth generating the pagan gods (who, according to Augustine, were just people).
“What can more manifestly favor them who say that all those gods were men? For they are earth-born in the sense that the earth is their mother”.
The animals do not seem to be mentioned in Augustine's text, and they possibly were introduced by analogy with illustrations of the Biblical creation of the world: the similarity with illustrations of the Book of Genesis does not seem accidental to me. -
RE: Animal and human evolution
EllieV > 22-02-2016, 11:32 PM
(22-02-2016, 10:31 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello Jurgen,
I discussed Job's "mermaid" (Losbuch Ms. germ. fol. 642) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
In my opinion, the image actually represents a man: Jonah emerging from the whale...
I think the 'mermaid' represents a soul being swallowed by the hell's mouth and the drawings on this page represent the Purgatory. In the context of the biological/anatomy section of the VMs the text may be about purgative medicine - just another word play by the author
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Animal and human evolution
MarcoP > 23-02-2016, 09:13 AM