Pardis Motiee > 23-01-2024, 09:28 AM
(22-01-2024, 05:33 PM)dfs346 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems to me that the proposed mapping between Voynich glyphs and Persian letters should address the frequencies of the respective symbol sets.I just noticed here some vowels from Table 1 are confused with other vowels/letters, for A it should be ـَ and for V it should be ـُ
If we use the v101 transliteration, herbal section, as the corpus of reference, as illustrated in the tables below, there is in most cases a large difference between the frequency of the Voynich glyph (or glyphs) and that of the Persian letter (or letters) proposed to correspond.
The Persian letter frequencies are from a corpus of modern Persian, and the frequency analysis would be better if based on Middle Persian (for example the Ruba'iyat of Omar Khayyam); but I'm inclined to think that the frequencies in Middle Persian would not be much different.
dfs346 > 23-01-2024, 10:41 AM
Pardis Motiee > 23-01-2024, 11:29 AM
(23-01-2024, 08:52 AM)dfs346 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Many thanks for this clarification. Indeed, we don't need to use the v101 transliteration; we can map directly from the glyphs to Persian letters, as per the proposed mapping. That would be a manual task. The advantage of using v101 as an intermediate step is that the v101 glyphs are available in Unicode, as are the Persian letters. Therefore, using the find-and-replace function in Microsoft Word or Excel, it's a half-hour's work to apply the proposed mapping to a line, a paragraph, a page or even the whole Voynich manuscript.
I attempted to apply the proposed mapping, followed by rules 1 and 2, to page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. line 1. I used Unicode symbols for some of the phonetic strings, to allow the find-and-replace function to work, as follows:
This yielded the following result:
- all upper case mapped to lower case
- A' mapped to á
- T' mapped to ť
- T" mapped to ŧ
I noted your interpretation (Step 3) and copied it into Google Translate, with the following result:
I would like to invite the comments of this forum on the extent to which Step 3 is arbitrary.
Pardis Motiee > 23-01-2024, 12:13 PM
(23-01-2024, 10:41 AM)dfs346 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here's my attempt at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. line 2, using the proposed mapping. I did not see any repetitions on this line, so did not apply rule 1. (Unless v101-ho8 {rids} or v101-89 {sv} are considered repetitions; it wasn't clear to me whether removal of repetitions applies to any repeated string, or only to isolated strings or "words".)In the method, throughout a complete paragraph, all words undergo changes. Of course, you can check it in a small sequence, but the effect of deleting the previous and next iterations will be lost. For this sequence you have selected (without considering the previous sequence):
Rafal > 24-01-2024, 01:57 PM
Pardis Motiee > 24-01-2024, 04:03 PM
(24-01-2024, 01:57 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello PardisHi Rafal
This is quite complicated what you present us here.
So my simple question would be - are you suggesting that Voynich script is a basic substitution cipher or something more?
By basic substitution I mean that any letter is always replaced by the same sign, like in Ceasar's cipher.
Or is it something more when it comes to Voynich?
You mention some patterns of repetition but I don't quite get it. Do they change the meaning of symbols?
Pepper > 26-01-2024, 10:18 AM
nablator > 26-01-2024, 11:44 AM
Quote:Within a word, two elements B and B* are same surrounding a specific region:
Quote:The order of deletions was according to the number of the rules in such a way that first the repetitions of type 1 were reduced to one, then frequent repetitions of type 2 were removed. Finally, type 3 repetitions were removed from the remaining text. This order of removing repetitions continued until no form of repetition remained.
Rafal > 26-01-2024, 03:34 PM
Pardis Motiee > 27-01-2024, 12:23 PM
(26-01-2024, 11:44 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What is unclear to me in the examples in your colored cells PDF is the order for applying the omission rules. In some cases like the first paragraph of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. you have all three colors at the same time: type one (magenta), type two (blue), type three (green).
Quote:Within a word, two elements B and B* are same surrounding a specific region:
The type 3 rule is unclear too: what does "a specific region" mean?
Sometimes, the result depends on the order you apply the rules, and whether removals are done in a second pass, after identification of the repetition patterns or if they are done in a single pass (search, remove, repeat): then the direction of search, left to right or right to left matters.
Identification then removal:
ay by cy -> a b c
Single pass, left to right:
ay by cy -> a b cy
Looking at your colored cells PDF it seems to be the former.
Quote:The order of deletions was according to the number of the rules in such a way that first the repetitions of type 1 were reduced to one, then frequent repetitions of type 2 were removed. Finally, type 3 repetitions were removed from the remaining text. This order of removing repetitions continued until no form of repetition remained.
Type 1, then 2, then 3, then loop. Got it I think.