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Matching planet labels
- Matching planet labels
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RE: Matching planet labels
oshfdk > 17-10-2023, 05:57 PM
(17-10-2023, 05:49 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why take golden moon as night only in the 2nd solution (CCW Zodiac)?
If we choose golden moon as day (because it is not the moon face that is painted, it is the sky, dark red for night, light yellow for day makes sense) then the 2nd solution only matches golden yellow / day = Sun and dark red / night = Moon.
We don't get to choose, as far as I can see. Night and day domiciles are assigned to specific signs. In my list of four planets first I list two that define which one is day and which one is night. When Venus is in Taurus, it's in its night domicile, and the moon over it is red, so red would have to mean night in this solution. Likewise, when Venus is in Libra, it's in its daytime domicile, and the moon over it is still red, so red would have to mean day. -
RE: Matching planet labels
nablator > 17-10-2023, 06:02 PM
(17-10-2023, 05:50 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess, the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Saturn are next to their domiciles. But Jupiter, Mercury and Venus look misplaced, or are they arranged according to their elements? I don't remember the element assignments of the planets.
I was puzzled too, MarcoP explained and maybe I understood (for the next 5 minutes until I forgot).
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RE: Matching planet labels
nablator > 17-10-2023, 06:05 PM
(17-10-2023, 05:57 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We don't get to choose, as far as I can see. Night and day domiciles are assigned to specific signs.
I understand. I saw N/D in the same column as the planets so I assumed they are linked to the planets. How can we find out about this? -
RE: Matching planet labels
oshfdk > 17-10-2023, 06:08 PM
(17-10-2023, 05:49 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If we choose golden moon as day (because it is not the moon face that is painted, it is the sky, dark red for night, light yellow for day makes sense) then the 2nd solution only matches golden / day = Sun and dark red / night = Moon.
Just to make sure we are on the same page, in your spreadsheet two solutions go in opposite directions, do I understand this correctly? One for 111100101010 pattern and the other for the same pattern in reverse. In both solutions Venus and Mercury occupy exactly the same spots on f67r2 chart, right, the color of their moons don't change? And as the pattern switches direction in the spreadsheet, but not the chart, this means that on the chart Zodiac has to go from CCW to CW. -
RE: Matching planet labels
oshfdk > 17-10-2023, 06:13 PM
(17-10-2023, 06:05 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I understand. I saw N/D in the same column as the planets so I assumed they are linked to the planets. How can we find out about this?
I'm not exactly sure what "linked to the planets" means here. In the table each planet, with the exception of the Sun and the Moon, appears twice, once with 'D' and once with 'N'.
We can also compare the domicile assignments with a chart from Wikipedia: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (which hilariously lists a horoscope of George Bush as its primary source). -
RE: Matching planet labels
nablator > 17-10-2023, 07:06 PM
(17-10-2023, 06:13 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not exactly sure what "linked to the planets" means here. In the table each planet, with the exception of the Sun and the Moon, appears twice, once with 'D' and once with 'N'.
We can also compare the domicile assignments with a chart from Wikipedia: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (which hilariously lists a horoscope of George Bush as its primary source).
No link, my misunderstanding. Thanks for explaining! There is indeed a problem: mismatch of D/N in both solutions for the Sun and Moon in f67r2.
Code:1st solution:
Venus - Taurus N
Mercury - Gemini D
Moon - Cancer N
Sun - Leo D
- Virgo N
- Libra D
Mars - Scorpio N
- Sagittarius D
Saturn - Capricorn N
- Aquarius D
Jupiter - Pisces N
- Aries D
2nd solution:
Venus - Libra D
Mercury - Virgo N
Sun - Leo D
Moon - Cancer N
- Gemini D
- Taurus N
Mars - Aries D
- Pisces N
Saturn - Aquarius D
- Capricorn N
Jupiter - Sagittarius D
- Scorpio N
Note: on this Wikipedia page they don't associate diurnal/nocturnal with Leo and Cancer in the Domicile sign(s) column (too obvious?), but they do in the next column (Detriment sign)...
The associations are confirmed for example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., with an association to planets, to make things more confusing...
Quote:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were masculine or diurnal signs, whereas You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. were feminine or nocturnal signs.
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RE: Matching planet labels
oshfdk > 18-10-2023, 08:21 AM
(17-10-2023, 07:06 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is indeed a problem: mismatch of D/N in both solutions for the Sun and Moon in f67r2.
On the other hand, the good thing is the labels for other five planets are the same for both solutions:
Mercury - opcholdy
Venus - okain.am
Mars - yfain
Jupiter - okal
Saturn - dalchsody
Working off this I've found some interesting statistically significant patterns, I'm finishing another text in my Voynich marathon dedicated to these, hope to have it out in 3-4 days.
One note of interest, of all these labels "okal" is by far the most common in VMS, occurring over 500 times. If, hypothetically, we are talking about a codex inspired by Roman/Greek pre-Christian beliefs, Jupiter could be called Jove/Iove/Deus/Zeus (which could explain the angle of the chart on f67r2: this label is on top there, and putting Jove on top should be natural for Jupiter worshipers). On the other hand, if we are talking about a distance/permutation cipher over plaintext Latin, "de-us" is a combination of two extremely common syllables, that would cooccur all over the text if the syllables are shuffled in any manner. To much lesser extent the same can be said about "io-ve". I have no specific data so far to posit this as a hypothesis, but it's an interesting observation to me. -
RE: Matching planet labels
nablator > 18-10-2023, 09:14 AM
(18-10-2023, 08:21 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.One note of interest, of all these labels "okal" is by far the most common in VMS, occurring over 500 times. If, hypothetically, we are talking about a codex inspired by Roman/Greek pre-Christian beliefs, Jupiter could be called Jove/Iove/Deus/Zeus (which could explain the angle of the chart on f67r2: this label is on top there, and putting Jove on top should be natural for Jupiter worshipers).
The labels for planets that we see in Latin manuscripts often use the genitive case (because sphere of), that's why we get Veneris and Jovis instead of Venus and Jupiter. The modern conventions for writing Latin consonants v/j and vowels u/i differently did not apply of course: a cipher would use only u/i letters, not v/j.
The Greek genitive of Zeus would be You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
If there is a system for enciphering, the positional rigidity of Voynichese and low conditional entropy being what they are, it is unlikely that more than a few letters could be enciphered in such short labels, a mnemonic or abbreviation maybe?
It's hard to imagine how oka could work both for the 3rd and 6th classical planet, in Latin or Greek, unless there is a "one to many" mapping.
I doubt there were any Jupiter worshipers in the 15th century. Classical antiquity was a huge source of inspiration for the Renaissance, but always in a Christian framework. -
RE: Matching planet labels
Aga Tentakulus > 18-10-2023, 09:35 AM
I don't know which "okal" you saw, but if that's what I think it is, then it's certainly not a name.
Take a picture of the "okal".
According to my information, it means "to fall or to sink" and is part of the text.