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Can we make isoglosses?
- Can we make isoglosses?
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RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Koen G > 06-06-2023, 07:15 PM
(06-06-2023, 06:29 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the elusive "abia"
Very interesting. I agree about the reading of the word as "abia", but in the VM it looks like a cross between its "b" and its "h". I wouldn't rule out a female form of the word "agyos", which also occurs in charms. -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
MarcoP > 06-06-2023, 07:32 PM
Personally, I don't see 'h' as a possibility. The two instances of 'h' in 116v have a descender below the right leg: this is common in similar cursive scripts. The second letter in 'b' is closed as the bottom, though the final part of the stroke is faded, it is still visibile. This faded stroke interrupted the darker stroke of the left leg, carrying away some of the ink: the 'h' does not explain the interruption in the left leg.
Overall, this 'b' seems to me to be comparable with that in ubren(?) in the fourth line. Each of the Bs in the page has a different bottom and this variant fits with the others.
Also, does the spelling 'ahia' appear anywhere? -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Koen G > 06-06-2023, 08:02 PM
I saw the faded line as a blemish on the parchment, where the ink of the left leg didn't "take". But it is true that we would expect a descender on the "h". With that being absent and there being some indication of a light stroke over the left leg, the case for "b" is probably better.
If I read the 2D image correctly, there may be some elevation here in the parchment, which may have caused the final stroke of the "b" to travel further up and left than intended. -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Juan_Sali > 07-06-2023, 11:54 AM
mit gaissei? (I dont understand the end of the word) milich oder mit eines wider leber als warm pint
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RE: Can we make isoglosses?
nablator > 07-06-2023, 12:42 PM
(07-06-2023, 11:54 AM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.mit gaissei? (I dont understand the end of the word) milich oder mit eines wider leber als warm pint
It looks just like the Latin abbreviation for 'r' (macron with change of curvature, sometimes it was more like a hook), so gaissein' probably stands for gaisserin.
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RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Bernd > 07-06-2023, 07:51 PM
Very nice finds!
Once again we see the VM is less 'alien' than it seems at first glance.
'gaisserin' is weird but could be read as a female form of 'gais' so a female goat. Like 'Senner' -> alpine dairyman / 'Sennerin' -> alpine dairywoman. Still unusual because it should be rather obvious the milk comes from the female. Never heard about 'gaisserin' before, it's usually just gais and gaisbock/pock for the male but that means nothing.
Overall the question remains how 'milch'/'milich' became 'mich' which is highly unusual and if it is really the same thing, see 'gaismich gens'. I do think goat milk makes the most sense but we have to acknowledge that very strange and non-uniform spelling was quite common back then. -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Aga Tentakulus > Yesterday, 01:45 PM
"hilft das alles nicht, so soll er das Haupt damit schmieren mit gaizze??? milich mit eines wie der Leber als warm bind es ihm über das Haupt oder schrupph einen Hasen"
"If all this does not help, then he should smear his head with it with gaizze??? milich with one like the liver as warm bind it over his head or rough up a hare".
Gais= one number , Gaisse more number. As a help.
pint = bind from bind.
Schrupph = from roughing, I think here it is gutting. You rough up fish, but you gut rabbits.
Possibility
wider leber / Widder leber
Wider liver ( Aries liver) -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Aga Tentakulus > Yesterday, 02:12 PM
Möglichkeiten für "wider".
"wie der" = like the
"wieder" = nochmals
"wider" = gegen
"Widder" = Aries
Auf den Bezug "oder Hasen" als alternative, wird es wohl die "Widderleber" sein.
Possibilities for "against
"wie der" = like the
"wieder" = once more
"wider" = against
"Widder" = Aries
On the reference "or hare" as an alternative, it will probably be the "ram's liver". -
RE: Can we make isoglosses?
Koen G > Yesterday, 02:46 PM
A plural form would be normal in Dutch. We would say "geitenmelk" and not "geitmelk". Maybe the writer was not a native speaker and kind of formed his own word for the female goat?