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• Favourite Archive to Visit

  Mark Knowles > 16-03-2023, 04:53 PM

  I was wondering if you could teleport to any archive to do Voynich research which would be your top choice; ideally what would be your top 3. Please exclude from your answer the Beinecke as that is an obvious and not revealing answer.
  
  My top two/three are:
  
  1) Milan State Archives
  2) Vatican Archives
  3) A few possibilities such as:Yale University Library(Not the Beinecke)

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Helmut Winkler > 16-03-2023, 06:20 PM

  1) Archivio di Stato di Padova
  
  2) Archivio di Stato di Venezia

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Mark Knowles > 16-03-2023, 06:28 PM

  (16-03-2023, 06:20 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.1) Archivio di Stato di Padova
  
  2) Archivio di Stato di Venezia

  
  That is very interesting and can I ask why those to archives? What would you look for there and what would you hope to find?
  
  (2) Would be on my list except that as my main focus is ciphers, I know from the work of Paolo Bonavoglia that there are no ciphers in the Venice State Archives except for the 1411 Michele Steno cipher from before 1483, when there was a fire in the Doge's Palace. However just because there aren't ciphers it doesn't mean that there aren't other interesting documents there.

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Helmut Winkler > 16-03-2023, 06:36 PM

  Mark,
  
  for several reasons I feel quite sure that he VMs is not a ciphre and that it comes from Padua. With this hypothesis my choice is obvious
  
  Edit: One would have to look at several fondi as a whole, there is no other chance

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Mark Knowles > 16-03-2023, 06:41 PM

  (16-03-2023, 04:53 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.1) Milan State Archives
  2) Vatican Archives
  3) A few possibilities such as:Yale University Library(Not the Beinecke)

  
  I probably should clarify the reasons for my choices: (1) I associate the Voynich manuscript with my Milan more than any other city. (Technically I am interested in all Milan Archives such as State, Church, Ambrosiana...)
  (2) If they have survived there ought to be ciphers in the Vatican Archive of interested to my research.
  (3) I might find some interesting ciphers or other material in the Ilardi Microfilms reels.
  

  ---

  (16-03-2023, 06:36 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mark,
  
  for several reasons I feel quite sure that he VMs is not a ciphre and that it comes from Padua. With this hypothesis my choice is obvious
  
  Edit: One would have to look at several fondi as a whole, there is no other chance

  
  Thanks for your answer. Naturally I have quite a different perspective, but I have become used to the idea that everyone has a different Voynich theory.
  
  Of course, within my question I assume that one could search anywhere within a given archive as much as one sees fit.

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Helmut Winkler > 16-03-2023, 06:54 PM

  I don't know how much experience you have with work in archives, but at first you get only access to finding aids/Repertoria,  some of them are online and you should have mention of ciphres, then you can ask for originals

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Mark Knowles > 16-03-2023, 07:51 PM

  Helmut, unfortunately, often in my experience inventories are very incomplete. If I know precisely where documents are in archives either as they have been referred to elsewhere or as they are listed in an inventory and they are of interest to me then I will normally request photoreproductions from the archives. If the presence or locations of documents is uncertain then I have to visit archives. This is particularly true with locating enciphered letters as they are often not listed elsewhere. One has to get special permission to visit the Vatican archives, other archives are less restrictive in their criteria I think.

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  ReneZ > 17-03-2023, 09:02 AM

  I have been to several libraries and archives of which I suspected that they might hold information related to the later history of the MS. These were, in order of preference (but reversed chronological order):
  
  1. The EUM archive of the Society of Jesus, in Rome
  2. The Czech national library
  
  In general, in order to do any kind of serious research, one or two visits of a few hours are totally inadequate. This was all I had, unfortunately. A week is more realistic, and even better is to have a first visit to get an inventory, and then a second after having processed this.
  
  However, I understand that the purpose of this thread is to find material related to the origin of the MS.
  This can only be a long shot. Even though I can well imagine that some relevant material is still preserved somewhere, I think that it is far more likely to be found by someone who is not specifically looking for Voynich-related material, but by someone who stubles upon it. That could be even this afternoon.....
  
  Now my long-shot preferences would be:
  1. The French national library
  2.  Any Visconti-related archive (research needed to figure out which one)
  
  This is just in order to find out if there was a regular visitor to the Visconti libary in Pavia, who fits the profile of the Voynich MS author.
  However, even though this is my best guess, it is such a long shot that I would not seriously pursue it.

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Mark Knowles > 17-03-2023, 01:17 PM

  Yes, when I mentioned the Milan State Archives, I was also thinking of the archives in the Duchy of Milan, which I know is cheating, but Pavia would come under that umbrella. These archives would naturally be associated with the Visconti.
  
  It is true that Rome has a number of archives, not only the Vatican Archive, which could be of interest.
  
  When it comes to the French National Library I don't know it is certainly possible that it has something of interest, especially as it seems to have a quantity of document from the Voynich period.
  
  I agree that the Czech National Library would be much more interesting when it comes to research into the later period of the Voynich manuscript ownership. Although, of course, illuminating the later period might also help to illuminate the earlier period.

• RE: Favourite Archive to Visit

  Mark Knowles > 17-03-2023, 07:09 PM

  One issue with some of the Visconti material is that it was destroyed in the 1447 fire.
  
  As I have pointed out before there is a quantity of Italian material from around the Voynich period in the French National Library.
  
  I do agree that not much can be achieved in a few hours in an archive and certainly getting an inventory, if they have an inventory for certain folders and if the inventory is not online could be a useful exercise. The Vatican have inventories which can only be seen if you visit their archives. However I should say that with my experience of a number of Italian archives such as the Florence State Archives, Milan State Archives and others they often seem to lack inventories for specific folders though they might have some general record of the kind of thing to be found in that folder, so it is necessary to search through a folder that one believes might contain something useful
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