Objective statistics about VMS text

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Objective statistics about VMS text
Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 17-12-2022, 01:16 AM
Hello all, long time no see!
Please use this thread mainly to submit your objective (i.e. numbers-based) statistics about VMS glyphs, vords, and text.

If we gather all the facts together, we may be able to reverse-engineer the process that generated them. (Please feel free to speculate about that here too.)

Here are my statistics using Takahashi transcription:
- <l> appears 10,518 times in the VMS. In 54% of occurrences (5693 cases) it appears before <o>, and about 30% of times (3091 cases) before <a>.
  So, 84% of the time that <l> appears in the VMS, it is either in an <al> or <ol> combination.
- <r> appears 7456 times. In 3244 cases (43.5% of the time), it is in an <ar> combination, and in 2820 cases (37.8%) it appears in <or>.
  So, 81.3% of the time, <r> is either in an <ar> or <or> combination.
- <y> appears 17,655 times. In 14,515 cases, it is word-final.
  So, 82.2% of the times that <y> appears in the VMS, it is word-final.
- There are 36,137 vords (tokens) in the Takahashi transcription. There are 14,515 vords with a final <y>.
  Therefore 40% of vords in the VMS end in <y>.
- <d> appears 12,973 times. In 6834 cases (52.7% of the time), <d> is followed by <y>.
- When <dy> appear together (6834 times), it is word-final 88.8% of the time (6071 times)
- <k> appears 10,934 times, but in 6069 cases it is in the combination <ok>.
  So <k> is preceded by <o> 55.5% of the time.
- <t> appears 6944 times in the VMS, but in 3856 cases it is in the combination <ot>.
  So <t> is preceded by <o> 55.5% of the time.
- <q> appears 5423 times in the VMS, but in 5383 (99.3%) of cases it is word-initial.
- <q> appears 5423 times in the VMS, but in 5290 (97.5%) of cases it is in the combination <qo>.
- <qo> appears 5290 times in the entire VMS, but in 3116 (58.9%) times the next letter is <k>, and in 1130 cases (21%), the next letter is <t>.
  So 80% of the time that <qo> appears, it is in a <qok> or <qot> combination.
- <ain>, <aiin> and <aiiin> appear word-initial over 500 times but are never once line-initial.
Your turn! You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a text extractor.
RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

Ruby Novacna > 17-12-2022, 06:57 PM

For EVA t it would be useful, in my opinion, to count how many times it appears between the two vowels.

I realise that the majority of "consonant" glyphs appear between the two vowels, so this was a bad idea.
RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

Hermes777 > 17-12-2022, 08:48 PM

Voynichese.com

[k] = 10,845 instances
[t] = 6,872
[p] = 1620
[f] = 499

However, the distribution of these glyphs in the BENCHED form shows [t] to be anomalous:

[ckh] = 907 instances
[cth] = 945
[cph] = 217
[cfh] = 74

Proportionally, there are far more [cth] - or far fewer [ckh] - than we would expect.
RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

nablator > 18-12-2022, 10:28 AM
(17-12-2022, 01:16 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- <ain>, <aiin> and <aiiin> appear word-initial over 500 times but are never once line-initial.

Paragraph lines never start with cK or cF, never end with k.

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

Torsten > 18-12-2022, 09:28 PM

If it comes to statistics for the VMS it is important to keep in mind that the text isn't homogenous. The text differs from Currier A to Currier B, from quire to quire, from bifolio to bifolio, from page to page and even within a paragraph or line.

There are parts where the glyph combination <ed> is extremely rare (Currier A), or where the glyph combination <qo> is extremely rare (labels and also the pages f1r, f1v, and f8v). Also the glyph combination <cth> is rare or missing on some pages (pages You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). In the same way also the glyph combination <ckh> is rare or missing on some pages (see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. etc). The glyph <m> is sometimes missing (see for instance the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and sometimes preferred in line final position (Currier B) and sometimes used all over the page (see Currier A pages like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). Even one of the most common glyph combination, the combination <in> is sometimes rare or missing (see page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 05-06-2023, 09:20 PM

Some more statistics:

<y> appears 17,655 times, but in 6834 cases (38.7% of the time) it is in the combination <dy>
<n> appears 6,141 times, but in 5,824 cases (94.8%) it is word-final.
<n> appears 6,141 times, but in 4,760 cases (77.5%) it follows <i>
<e> appears 20,070 times, but in 8,167 cases (40.7%) it follows <h>

Whatever system created the VMS (natural language/cipher/abbreviations etc.) has to produce three outcomes:

Certain glyphs appear almost always in certain positions (word-initial / word-final)
Certain glyphs appear more commonly around other glyphs (e.g. k after o, r after a)
Certain glyphs do both of the above two things.

An inference:

Whatever <q> is doing in the VMS, it does not seem to function independently of <o> (with which it's grouped 97.5% of the time), and the letter after <qo> is usually a gallows (84% of the time). <q> seems to "need" an "o-gallows", but "o-gallows" does not need <q> and is often found independent of <q>.

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 06-06-2023, 10:32 PM

Another three peculiar things:

The 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot- all have valid parallels beginning with ok-

Code:
otedy (154) - okedy

otaiin (150) - okaiin

oteey (135) - okeey

otar (124) - okar

otal (118) - okal

oty (110) - oky

oteedy (103) - okeedy

otain (95) - okain

otor (36) - okor

otol (74) - okol

otey (55) - okey

otam (46) - okam

otchy (42) - okchy

oteody (40) - okeody

oteol (37) - okeol

otchdy (33) - okchdy

otchedy (33) - okchedy

otchey (31) - okchey

otchol (27) - okchol

otody (24) - okody

oteos (21) - okeos

otair (19) - okair

otaly (19) - okaly

otchor (15) - okchor

oteeos (13) - okeeos

otedar (12) - okedar

ot(11) - ok

oteeody (11) - okeeody

otees (11) - okees

otshedy (10) - okshedy

oteor (10) - okeor

otoldy (9) - okoldy

oteo (9) - okeo

oteeol (8) - okeeol

otaldy (8) - okaldy

otshey (8) - okshey

oteodar (7) - okeodar

otodar (7) - okodar

otoly (7) - okoly

oteeo (7) - okeeo

oto (6) - oko

oteodaiin (6) - okeodaiin

otcho (6) - okcho

oteodal (6) - okeodal

otary (6) - okary

oteed (6) - okeed

oteeey (6) - okeeey

otodaiin (5) - okodaiin

otear (5) - okear

otchar (5) - okchar

Of the 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot-, 47 have valid parallels beginning with qot-

Code:
otedy (154) - qotedy

otaiin (150) - qotaiin

oteey (135) - qoteey

otar (124) - qotar

otal (118) - qotal

oty (110) - qoty

oteedy (103) - qoteedy

otain (95) - qotain

otor (36) - qotor

otol (74) - qotol

otey (55) - qotey

otam (46) - qotam

otchy (42) - qotchy

oteody (40) - qoteody

oteol (37) - qoteol

otchdy (33) - qotchdy

otchedy (33) - qotchedy

otchey (31) - qotchey

otchol (27) - qotchol

otody (24) - qotody

oteos (21) - qoteos

otair (19) - qotair

otaly (19) - qotaly

otchor (15) - qotchor

oteeos (13) - qoteeos

otedar (12) - qotedar

ot(11) - qot

oteeody (11) - qoteeody

otees (11) - qotees

otshedy (10) - qotshedy

oteor (10) - qoteor

otoldy (9) - qotoldy

oteo (9) - qoteo

oteeol (8) - qoteeol

otaldy (8) - qotaldy

otshey (8) - qotshey

oteodar (7) - No parallel

otodar (7) - No parallel

otoly (7) - qotoly

oteeo (7) - qoteeo

oto (6) - qoto

oteodaiin (6) - qoteodaiin

otcho (6) - qotcho

oteodal (6) - No parallel

otary (6) - qotary

oteed (6) - qoteed

oteeey (6) - qoteeey

otodaiin (5) - qotodaiin

otear (5) - qotear

otchar (5) - qotchar

Of the 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot, 41 have parallels beginning with yt-

Code:
otedy (154) - ytedy

otaiin (150) - ytaiin

oteey (135) - yteey

otar (124) - ytar

otal (118) - ytal

oty (110) - yty

oteedy (103) - yteedy

otain (95) - ytain

otor (36) - ytor

otol (74) - ytol

otey (55) - ytey

otam (46) - ytam

otchy (42) - ytchy

oteody (40) - yteody

oteol (37) - yteol

otchdy (33) - ytchdy

otchedy (33) - ytchedy

otchey (31) - ytchey

otchol (27) - ytchol

otody (24) - ytody

oteos (21) - yteos

otair (19) - ytair

otaly (19) - ytaly

otchor (15) - ytchor

oteeos (13) - yteeos

otedar (12) - ytedar

ot(11) - no parallel

oteeody (11) - yteeody

otees (11) - no parallel

otshedy (10) - ytshedy

oteor (10) - yteor

otoldy (9) - ytoldy

oteo (9) - yteo

oteeol (8) - yteeol

otaldy (8) - no parallel

otshey (8) - no parallel

oteodar (7) - no parallel

otodar (7) - no parallel

otoly (7) - no parallel

oteeo (7) - yteeo

oto (6) - yto

oteodaiin (6) - no parallel

otcho (6) - ytcho

oteodal (6) - no parallel

otary (6) - ytary

oteed (6) - yteed

oteeey (6) - yteeey

otodaiin (5) - ytodaiin

otear (5) - ytear

otchar (5) - ytchar

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

R. Sale > 07-06-2023, 11:33 PM

While alterations of this type can exist in English, other languages may be more difficult.

In the individual word pairings, do you have numerical values for the second term. If the second term is rare, perhaps it is an alternate or erroneous spelling. If it is more numerous, perhaps it is a different word. Or is use determined by scribal preference?

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 08-06-2023, 10:48 PM

(07-06-2023, 11:33 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the individual word pairings, do you have numerical values for the second term. If the second term is rare, perhaps it is an alternate or erroneous spelling. If it is more numerous, perhaps it is a different word. Or is use determined by scribal preference?

Thanks for the reply R. Sale - those are all great thoughts. Unfortunately I didn't write down the second vord frequencies, but they were roughly as common or as rare as the first (i.e. a rare ot- word correlated to a rare yt- or qot- word).

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

nablator > 09-06-2023, 09:39 AM

(06-06-2023, 10:32 PM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot- all have valid parallels beginning with ok-

If I am not mistaken (checked quickly on daiin.net and frequencies are different in every transliteration, which makes the "objective statistics" not at all objective), all frequent words (more than 9 occurrences) containing t have a valid counterpart with k/t switched.
For k it is true for all words with more than 31 occurrences.

Objective statistics about VMS text

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