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Objective statistics about VMS text

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Objective statistics about VMS text
Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 17-12-2022, 01:16 AM
Hello all, long time no see!
Please use this thread mainly to submit your objective (i.e. numbers-based) statistics about VMS glyphs, vords, and text.

If we gather all the facts together, we may be able to reverse-engineer the process that generated them. (Please feel free to speculate about that here too.)

Here are my statistics using Takahashi transcription:
- <l> appears 10,518 times in the VMS. In 54% of occurrences (5693 cases) it appears before <o>, and about 30% of times (3091 cases) before <a>.
  So, 84% of the time that <l> appears in the VMS, it is either in an <al> or <ol> combination.
- <r> appears 7456 times. In 3244 cases (43.5% of the time), it is in an <ar> combination, and in 2820 cases (37.8%) it appears in <or>.
  So, 81.3% of the time, <r> is either in an <ar> or <or> combination.
- <y> appears 17,655 times. In 14,515 cases, it is word-final.
  So, 82.2% of the times that <y> appears in the VMS, it is word-final.
- There are 36,137 vords (tokens) in the Takahashi transcription. There are 14,515 vords with a final <y>.
  Therefore 40% of vords in the VMS end in <y>.
- <d> appears 12,973 times. In 6834 cases (52.7% of the time), <d> is followed by <y>.
- When <dy> appear together (6834 times), it is word-final 88.8% of the time (6071 times)
- <k> appears 10,934 times, but in 6069 cases it is in the combination <ok>.
  So <k> is preceded by <o> 55.5% of the time.
- <t> appears 6944 times in the VMS, but in 3856 cases it is in the combination <ot>.
  So <t> is preceded by <o> 55.5% of the time.
- <q> appears 5423 times in the VMS, but in 5383 (99.3%) of cases it is word-initial.
- <q> appears 5423 times in the VMS, but in 5290 (97.5%) of cases it is in the combination <qo>.
- <qo> appears 5290 times in the entire VMS, but in 3116 (58.9%) times the next letter is <k>, and in 1130 cases (21%), the next letter is <t>.
  So 80% of the time that <qo> appears, it is in a <qok> or <qot> combination.
- <ain>, <aiin> and <aiiin> appear word-initial over 500 times but are never once line-initial.
Your turn! You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a text extractor.
RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

Ruby Novacna > 17-12-2022, 06:57 PM

For EVA t it would be useful, in my opinion, to count how many times it appears between the two vowels.

I realise that the majority of "consonant" glyphs appear between the two vowels, so this was a bad idea.
RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

Hermes777 > 17-12-2022, 08:48 PM

Voynichese.com

[k] = 10,845 instances
[t] = 6,872
[p] = 1620
[f] = 499

However, the distribution of these glyphs in the BENCHED form shows [t] to be anomalous:

[ckh] = 907 instances
[cth] = 945
[cph] = 217
[cfh] = 74

Proportionally, there are far more [cth] - or far fewer [ckh] - than we would expect.
RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

nablator > 18-12-2022, 10:28 AM
(17-12-2022, 01:16 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- <ain>, <aiin> and <aiiin> appear word-initial over 500 times but are never once line-initial.

Paragraph lines never start with cK or cF, never end with k.

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

Torsten > 18-12-2022, 09:28 PM

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 05-06-2023, 09:20 PM

Some more statistics:

<y> appears 17,655 times, but in 6834 cases (38.7% of the time) it is in the combination <dy>
<n> appears 6,141 times, but in 5,824 cases (94.8%) it is word-final.
<n> appears 6,141 times, but in 4,760 cases (77.5%) it follows <i>
<e> appears 20,070 times, but in 8,167 cases (40.7%) it follows <h>

Whatever system created the VMS (natural language/cipher/abbreviations etc.) has to produce three outcomes:

Certain glyphs appear almost always in certain positions (word-initial / word-final)
Certain glyphs appear more commonly around other glyphs (e.g. k after o, r after a)
Certain glyphs do both of the above two things.

An inference:

Whatever <q> is doing in the VMS, it does not seem to function independently of <o> (with which it's grouped 97.5% of the time), and the letter after <qo> is usually a gallows (84% of the time). <q> seems to "need" an "o-gallows", but "o-gallows" does not need <q> and is often found independent of <q>.

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 06-06-2023, 10:32 PM

Another three peculiar things:

The 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot- all have valid parallels beginning with ok-

Code:
otedy (154) - okedy
otaiin (150) - okaiin
oteey (135) - okeey
otar (124) - okar
otal (118) - okal
oty (110) - oky
oteedy (103) - okeedy
otain (95) - okain
otor (36) - okor
otol (74) - okol
otey (55) - okey
otam (46) - okam
otchy (42) - okchy
oteody (40) - okeody
oteol (37) - okeol
otchdy (33) - okchdy
otchedy (33) - okchedy
otchey (31) - okchey
otchol (27) - okchol
otody (24) - okody
oteos (21) - okeos
otair (19) - okair
otaly (19) - okaly
otchor (15) - okchor
oteeos (13) - okeeos
otedar (12) - okedar
ot(11) - ok
oteeody (11) - okeeody
otees (11) - okees
otshedy (10) - okshedy
oteor (10) - okeor
otoldy (9) - okoldy
oteo (9) - okeo
oteeol (8) - okeeol
otaldy (8) - okaldy
otshey (8) - okshey
oteodar (7) - okeodar
otodar (7) - okodar
otoly (7) - okoly
oteeo (7) - okeeo
oto (6) - oko
oteodaiin (6) - okeodaiin
otcho (6) - okcho
oteodal (6) - okeodal
otary (6) - okary
oteed (6) - okeed
oteeey (6) - okeeey
otodaiin (5) - okodaiin
otear (5) - okear
otchar (5) - okchar

Of the 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot-, 47 have valid parallels beginning with qot-

Code:
otedy (154) - qotedy
otaiin (150) - qotaiin
oteey (135) - qoteey
otar (124) - qotar
otal (118) - qotal
oty (110) - qoty
oteedy (103) - qoteedy
otain (95) - qotain
otor (36) - qotor
otol (74) - qotol
otey (55) - qotey
otam (46) - qotam
otchy (42) - qotchy
oteody (40) - qoteody
oteol (37) - qoteol
otchdy (33) - qotchdy
otchedy (33) - qotchedy
otchey (31) - qotchey
otchol (27) - qotchol
otody (24) - qotody
oteos (21) - qoteos
otair (19) - qotair
otaly (19) - qotaly
otchor (15) - qotchor
oteeos (13) - qoteeos
otedar (12) - qotedar
ot(11) - qot
oteeody (11) - qoteeody
otees (11) - qotees
otshedy (10) - qotshedy
oteor (10) - qoteor
otoldy (9) - qotoldy
oteo (9) - qoteo
oteeol (8) - qoteeol
otaldy (8) - qotaldy
otshey (8) - qotshey
oteodar (7) - No parallel
otodar (7) - No parallel
otoly (7) - qotoly
oteeo (7) - qoteeo
oto (6) - qoto
oteodaiin (6) - qoteodaiin
otcho (6) - qotcho
oteodal (6) - No parallel
otary (6) - qotary
oteed (6) - qoteed
oteeey (6) - qoteeey
otodaiin (5) - qotodaiin
otear (5) - qotear
otchar (5) - qotchar

Of the 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot, 41 have parallels beginning with yt-

Code:
otedy (154) - ytedy
otaiin (150) - ytaiin
oteey (135) - yteey
otar (124) - ytar
otal (118) - ytal
oty (110) - yty
oteedy (103) - yteedy
otain (95) - ytain
otor (36) - ytor
otol (74) - ytol
otey (55) - ytey
otam (46) - ytam
otchy (42) - ytchy
oteody (40) - yteody
oteol (37) - yteol
otchdy (33) - ytchdy
otchedy (33) - ytchedy
otchey (31) - ytchey
otchol (27) - ytchol
otody (24) - ytody
oteos (21) - yteos
otair (19) - ytair
otaly (19) - ytaly
otchor (15) - ytchor
oteeos (13) - yteeos
otedar (12) - ytedar
ot(11) - no parallel
oteeody (11) - yteeody
otees (11) - no parallel
otshedy (10) - ytshedy
oteor (10) - yteor
otoldy (9) - ytoldy
oteo (9) - yteo
oteeol (8) - yteeol
otaldy (8) - no parallel
otshey (8) - no parallel
oteodar (7) - no parallel
otodar (7) - no parallel
otoly (7) - no parallel
oteeo (7) - yteeo
oto (6) - yto
oteodaiin (6) - no parallel
otcho (6) - ytcho
oteodal (6) - no parallel
otary (6) - ytary
oteed (6) - yteed
oteeey (6) - yteeey
otodaiin (5) - ytodaiin
otear (5) - ytear
otchar (5) - ytchar

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

R. Sale > 07-06-2023, 11:33 PM

While alterations of this type can exist in English, other languages may be more difficult.

In the individual word pairings, do you have numerical values for the second term. If the second term is rare, perhaps it is an alternate or erroneous spelling. If it is more numerous, perhaps it is a different word. Or is use determined by scribal preference?

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

ThomasCoon > 08-06-2023, 10:48 PM

(07-06-2023, 11:33 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In the individual word pairings, do you have numerical values for the second term. If the second term is rare, perhaps it is an alternate or erroneous spelling. If it is more numerous, perhaps it is a different word. Or is use determined by scribal preference?

Thanks for the reply R. Sale - those are all great thoughts. Unfortunately I didn't write down the second vord frequencies, but they were roughly as common or as rare as the first (i.e. a rare ot- word correlated to a rare yt- or qot- word).

RE: Objective statistics about VMS text

nablator > 09-06-2023, 09:39 AM

(06-06-2023, 10:32 PM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The 50 most common words in the VMS beginning with ot- all have valid parallels beginning with ok-

If I am not mistaken (checked quickly on daiin.net and frequencies are different in every transliteration, which makes the "objective statistics" not at all objective), all frequent words (more than 9 occurrences) containing t have a valid counterpart with k/t switched.
For k it is true for all words with more than 31 occurrences.

Objective statistics about VMS text

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