Ruby Novacna > 25-06-2022, 05:13 PM
tavie > 25-06-2022, 05:50 PM
(25-06-2022, 05:13 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't find my question strange, but I will try to rephrase it anyway. If known authors writing in the same languages but in different dialects did not apply the same rules of grammar, we should perhaps be more concerned with the radicals of words, especially those common to both languages, to speed up the overall understanding of the text and leave the refinement of grammar for the next step?
MarcoP > 25-06-2022, 07:56 PM
Torsten > 25-06-2022, 11:46 PM
(12-05-2022, 01:10 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Marco, unfortunately I do not have a list of words in the manuscript by frequency.
(24-06-2022, 05:33 PM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The differences between the scribes (and even between the quires) are why it's best to study individual quires separately.
ReneZ > 26-06-2022, 11:10 AM
(25-06-2022, 11:46 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The existence of a single network allows the conclusion that the whole Voynich text is the result of a single system.
Searcher > 26-06-2022, 12:28 PM
Torsten > 26-06-2022, 08:38 PM
(26-06-2022, 11:10 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Still, there are two very distinct flavours of the text. One does not allow the character combination ed , and the other strongly favours it.
(26-06-2022, 11:10 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Even though there seems to be a short transition stage in the MS, this difference is very significant, and not yet properly understood.
Aga Tentakulus > 26-06-2022, 10:02 PM
Juan_Sali > 26-06-2022, 11:58 PM
(26-06-2022, 08:38 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Under the hypothesis: The whole VM is written in the same natural language with the same homophonic cipher system.(26-06-2022, 11:10 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Still, there are two very distinct flavours of the text. One does not allow the character combination ed , and the other strongly favours it.
Actually, words containing 'ed' are only very rare in Currier A (36 out of 11348 = 0.32%). There are 36 word tokens containing 'ed' in Currier A: 3 x <cheedy>, 2 x <shedy>, 2 x <chedy>, 2 x <okeedy>, <ded>, <aleedy>, <sheedy>, <oteedy>, <opcheedoy>, <cphoeedol>, <shesed>, <chedal>, <esedy>, <kcheed>, <olchedy>, <cthedy>, <shedaiin>, <ofchedol>, <qockhedy>, <chedo>, <qokchedy>, <yched>, <sheedom>, <ypchedy>, <chedain>, <ykeedy>, <lchedy>, <shopolchedy>, <cholkeedy>, <qokedy>, and <qokeed>.
(26-06-2022, 11:10 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Even though there seems to be a short transition stage in the MS, this difference is very significant, and not yet properly understood.
Actually, the word frequencies change all the time from page to page, from Quire to Quire, and also within Currier A and B. The discrimination between Currier A and B describes this observation in a simplified and unsatisfactory way.
The sequence 'ed' is used more and more frequently in Currier B. In Herbal B 16.3 % of the word tokens contain 'ed' (528/3233=16.3%), in Quire 20 (Stars) 19.4% (2073/10673 = 19.4%), and in Quire 13 (Biological) 27.9% (1925/6911 = 27.9%). The increase from 16.3 % to 27.9% is also significant and therefore needs an explanation.
This is what we mean with "Now, reordering the sections with respect to the frequency of token <chedy> replaces the seemingly irregular mixture of two separate languages by the
gradual evolution of a single system from 'state A' to 'state B'" (Timm & Schinner, p. 6). See also my page at github.com: sYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
tavie > 27-06-2022, 12:33 AM
(26-06-2022, 11:58 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Under the hypothesis: The whole VM is written in the same natural language with the same homophonic cipher system.I'm not completely sure about it being predominantly homophonic, but my "headcanon" is that there is a certain amount of flexibility in the system for the scribes, and that this would go a long way to explaining the scribal differences and also variety within the same scribe. But there are other problems that would need to be considered with it being homophonic or indeed other mechanisms that would generate that same flexibility.
Comparing texts with similar contents, the differences between scribes will be the homophonic parts of the cipher, as if every scribe enciphered what he/she wrote using the homophonics at will.