MarcoP > 17-08-2016, 05:09 PM
Linda > 17-08-2016, 07:38 PM
Quote:Part of this drawing (root and leaves only) is repeated on Pharma page f102r1[3,2].
The plant looks basically normal, except for the very peculiar root.
Quote:Atropa Belladona (deadly nightshade) , [i]Hyoscyamus niger (henbane) , [i]Solanum nigrum (black nightshade)
, Solanum dulcamara (bittersweet) , and perhaps other somewhat less likely species such as Withania somnifera and Physalis alkekengi. ETC[/i][/i]
Quote:He says: "see L.Fuchs p.398". There is no "Solanum solatrium"; rather, "solatrium" is an ancient (Dioscoridean) name for some or all of these species:
-JKP- > 17-08-2016, 09:24 PM
Davidsch > 18-08-2016, 02:30 PM
MarcoP > 18-08-2016, 05:10 PM
Linda > 20-08-2016, 04:34 PM
(17-08-2016, 09:24 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not sure how Physalis became (historically) connected to Plant 1v.
Physalis alkakengi is very distinctive. It has little orange lanterns that form a cage that reveals the fruit inside. The "lantern" tips are pointed and they typically hang rather than standing upright. The leaves are pointed, petioled, distinctly alternate, and certainly not clasping. It has little or nothing in common with 1v except that it bears a round fruit.
Most herbals, even those with bad drawings, are usually able to represent Physalis in a way that it is recognizable.
(18-08-2016, 02:30 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Strange thing: many years ago i matched cloves not to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
At least one other person thought that as well: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Cloves are the aromatic flower buds of a tree in the family Myrtaceae, Syzygium aromaticum.
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Nice german site: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(18-08-2016, 02:35 PM)Sam G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Edith Sherwood has 27v as cloves:
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Quote:(18-08-2016, 05:10 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Cloves (Garofoli Indiani) from Cadamosto's herbal (1470 ca).
In my opinion, the bulbous root of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is not an optimal match to clove's roots.
I think You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a good candidate for cloves. It would be interesting to know if the stem of the plant can be red.
(17-08-2016, 05:09 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have found two more images of Atropa Belladonna. Both are under the name of "fava inversa".
Left: Alchemical herbal BL MS. Canon. Misc. 408 (1378)
Right: Giovanni Cadamosto Vienna ONB Cod. 5264 Han. (1470 ca)
Observing the two images in the previous post, it seems to me that the general shape of the Voynich plant is compatible with that of the Alchemical illustration. The monster root and the large black berry are closer to Cadamosto's herbal (but the shape of the berries in the alchemical belladonna is a better fit). In my opinion, by combining these two illustrations, one gets a reasonable approximation of the Voynich plant. Possibly, the most prominent missing feature are the alternating colors of the leaves.
Diane > 09-09-2016, 04:32 PM
(15-08-2016, 11:01 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I keep seeing this diagram identified as Atropa belladonna. I can't see why, everything about the diagram is a mismatch with this plant. It doesn't have equal leaves, no explanation for the different colours, belladonna's bracts don't hug the berry, and they are pointy. The root is wrong, too, seems more like a tree or shrub root, looks like a calloused foot.
To me the Dana Scott identification of Syzygium aromaticum seems to fit much better than any of the other identifications I've seen reported for this plant (St. John's Wort, black nightshade, etc). The only problem I see is that only the clove top shows and is shown larger than it would be in comparison to the leaves. I think the largeness could be to show what part of the plant is used, where to find it on the plant, and that one is generally enough in terms of usage. The fact that it is not 100% obvious is perhaps an attempt to keep the knowledge semi-hidden from the casual observer.
Is there a better fit for this plant drawing? It's not striking me as familiar other than the clove top, and there is also the 'clavus' connection with the word clove and the calloused foot look of the root. But it's not perfect, so I'm open to a better identification. I find that a lot of plant diagrams strike me as looking like weeds I am familiar with in North America, but they are old world plants originally, but the ID of cloves would not fit that pattern. However cloves have been used for millennia, so I could see it as a known plant, just as we know it today, at least the part that is used.
Pardis Motiee > 07-03-2022, 11:56 AM
Aga Tentakulus > 07-03-2022, 12:25 PM