RenegadeHealer > 29-09-2020, 12:18 AM
Quote:oteeol otal chs char cheky chetshy okeeody oteey chekes
Quote:béz ba(s) ir jal jetə jeprž[font=-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont,]ə dég[font=-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont,]ə bé[font=-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont,]ə jeter[/font][/font][/font]
ReneZ > 29-09-2020, 04:47 AM
geoffreycaveney > 29-09-2020, 01:44 PM
(29-09-2020, 12:18 AM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Text on the innermost ring of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (“White Aries”):
Quote:oteeol otal chs char cheky chetshy okeeody oteey chekesUsing geoffreycaveney’s VCI substitutions, I get:
Quote:béz ba(s) ir jal jetə jeprž[font=-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont,]ə dég[font=-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont,]ə bé[font=-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont,]ə jeter[/font][/font][/font]
I used “ə” as a placeholder for [EVA]y[/EVA]. I just felt like a schwa was just easier for my brain to parse as an unknown vowel, or vowel-flavored variable, if you will, than y.
I’d be interested to hear any L1 or experienced L2 speakers of Slavic languages’ take on this.
geoffreycaveney > 29-09-2020, 02:19 PM
(29-09-2020, 04:47 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A better test (than just a brief 'sentence') would be to take half a page from quire 13.
ReneZ > 29-09-2020, 02:59 PM
(29-09-2020, 02:19 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Rene, thank you for the suggestion. I suppose one reason to try quire 13 (the "bathing women" or so-called biological or balneological section) as a test is that it would appear to tell a story, so we would expect it to be perhaps more "readable" than medieval medical or pharmaceutical notebook pages, which could be full of obscure abbreviations and specialized notations, which could be difficult for anyone to interpret outside the context of their specific time, place, and culture.
Indeed out of curiosity I already took a look at the very beginning of quire 13, the passage of text at the top of folio page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. through the first four complete lines. If there is any sense to this text at all, we might logically consider this to be "the beginning of the story", if we have a story here at all.
geoffreycaveney > 29-09-2020, 05:24 PM
(29-09-2020, 02:59 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, what you present is very, very far from half a page of quire 13.
RenegadeHealer > 29-09-2020, 07:16 PM
(29-09-2020, 01:44 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If we read <béz bas> as "bez vas"
geoffreycaveney > 29-09-2020, 07:44 PM
(29-09-2020, 07:16 PM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(29-09-2020, 01:44 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If we read <béz bas> as "bez vas"Is there good historical evidence for a /b/ --> /v/ sound change, or vice versa, in any West Slavic dialects since the middle ages? I'm aware this is a very common sound change and allophone pair, because they're produced at the same place of articulation. But does the /b/<-->/v/ variation apply specifically to the time period and language areas you're talking about here?
aStobbart > 29-09-2020, 07:51 PM
(29-09-2020, 07:44 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(29-09-2020, 07:16 PM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(29-09-2020, 01:44 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If we read <béz bas> as "bez vas"
Is there good historical evidence for a /b/ --> /v/ sound change, or vice versa, in any West Slavic dialects since the middle ages? I'm aware this is a very common sound change and allophone pair, because they're produced at the same place of articulation. But does the /b/<-->/v/ variation apply specifically to the time period and language areas you're talking about here?
No, not really to be honest. It could still appear more as a result of the unusual writing system, in which I do not identify a distinct glyph or sequence specifically to represent /v/. To be honest I would rather expect <was> than <bas> for this Slavic word, but again, we cannot expect perfect consistency or phonemic accuracy from an author writing in a very unusual writing system. It is also possible that these particular vords do not actually mean Slavic "bez vas" here. Accurate interpretation of a couple vords/words in isolation is still quite difficult at this stage of the investigation.
Quote:sal okeedy
daly ychey
sols daro
ychty
saino
saldy
dainy
RenegadeHealer > 29-09-2020, 07:59 PM