Voynichgibberish > 24-09-2020, 12:15 AM
Mark Knowles > 24-09-2020, 01:08 AM
(24-09-2020, 12:15 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A case for Gibberish and no one should suffer anymore by the hands of the Voynich Author
Anyone reading this please have mercy on me for passing any judgments upon the Voynich Manuscript, as I know this is a contentious topic for everyone involved. Over the years I've looked at the manuscript's text searching for any meaning whatsoever. I have run dozens of frequency analysis on several languages and compared it to the Voynich Manuscript to no avail. I even compared it to classical and modern ciphers and I could not fetter out a rational input and output cipher with languages which resembled normalcy of its kind. The output just became garbled so to speak. Lastly I began to think this was a created language and it only held meaning to the owner or a group, but that's when I woke after reading the Random Walk Pdf by Schinner.
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Here is some bullet points to ponder before going down the path of a literal translation of the VMS:
If you are a person trying to decode the Voynich Manuscript I would HIGHLY and its capped for a reason, go on and read the Schinner paper with the link I provided. In my opinion stop wasting your time. Its a dice roll of randomness and the text contains gibberish.
- VMS contains a low use of 1-2 tokens
- NO evidence for punctuation in the VMS whatsoever.
- Tokens repeat geometrically to often compared to languages
- Even in the modern era there is no decryption for the VMS
- If this was an invented language it still should obey a normal language rhythm for token repeats
- otol is a label for a star, plant and a empty pipe
- Lastly what likely would be consonants can be found at times as 1 character tokens
-JKP- > 24-09-2020, 01:12 AM
(24-09-2020, 12:15 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Here is some bullet points to ponder before going down the path of a literal translation of the VMS:
...
- VMS contains a low use of 1-2 tokens
- NO evidence for punctuation in the VMS whatsoever.
- Tokens repeat geometrically to often compared to languages
- Even in the modern era there is no decryption for the VMS
- If this was an invented language it still should obey a normal language rhythm for token repeats
- otol is a label for a star, plant and a empty pipe
- Lastly what likely would be consonants can be found at times as 1 character tokens
Voynichgibberish > 24-09-2020, 02:03 AM
Quote:
- only if you take spaces as literal, they may not be
- that's not uncommon for medieval manuscripts
- doesn't matter if it turns out to be a verbose code or multi-glyph characters, then this would be expected to happen. Alternately, there are languages where significantly different concepts are expressed with the exact same spelling (see my blog on Chechen).
- cool, more to study
- probably so, but we don't know yet if it is an invented language
- doesn't matter, it could be a reference label, an abbreviation, or an adjective rather than a noun
- there is no evidence yet for what is a consonant or a vowel, but in the medieval period consonants and vowels were frequently single characters that stood for abbreviations
Sometimes what appears to be an intractable problem is merely a sympton of insufficient imagination.
-JKP- > 24-09-2020, 04:02 AM
(24-09-2020, 02:03 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:I do take the spaces literally, because they are used and are there.
Quote:How common is it for a manuscript with so many references, images and ideas to have no punctuation from medieval times; that's 240 pages long to not have any punctuation whatsoever, can you reference any others?
Quote:From Bullet points 3 & 5 you seemed conflicted admitting yes and no to repeats for languages and geometric repeats are different from repeated words that are right next to each other.
Quote:JKP have you read Schinner paper? I think the label is very evident from the way the imagery is simplistic so to is the label even if it came from a mechanism which produced random gibberish. Lastly all languages usually contain a finite (low amount I should say) amount of vowels and a simple scan at for glyphs would show an abundance of lonely glyphs characters which also stand out against a frequency attack.
Voynichgibberish > 24-09-2020, 04:07 AM
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Quote:Although Zipf's Law holds for all languages, even non-natural ones like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.,You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the reason is still not well understood.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. However, it may be partially explained by the statistical analysis of randomly generated texts. Wentian Li has shown that in a document in which each character has been chosen randomly from a uniform distribution of all letters (plus a space character), the "words" with different lengths follow the macro-trend of the Zipf's law (the more probable words are the shortest with equal probability).You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., in a paper entitled On the Statistical Laws of Linguistic Distribution, offers a mathematical derivation. He took a large class of well-behaved You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (not only the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and expressed them in terms of rank. He then expanded each expression into a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. In every case Belevitch obtained the remarkable result that a first-order truncation of the series resulted in Zipf's law. Further, a second-order truncation of the Taylor series resulted in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ReneZ > 24-09-2020, 06:05 AM
MarcoP > 24-09-2020, 09:30 AM
(24-09-2020, 04:07 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So what to do to be more focused with Voynich studies, would be to find the exact algorithm which produces random VMS text. If one finds a 95% accuracy for the VMS text generation then in my mind he/she will have finally solved the Voynich Gibberish case!
I know Torsten Timm has gone down this path, however I don't think he has had a an equivalency of a 95% success rate.
(25-06-2019, 12:00 AM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(23-06-2019, 06:49 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the generated text here doesn't feature any clear dependency between the last glyph of a word and the first glyph of the next word?
"Keep in mind that the VMS was created by a human writer who had complete freedom to vary some details of the generating algorithm on the spur of a moment. ..." (Timm & Schinner 2019, p. 16). With other words we didn't argue that the text was created by a computer program and we didn't argue that our program is able to simulate the complexity of a human mind.
Beside line breaks numerous similar rules for describing some kind of local repetition exists. Even if I would try to add each rule it would still be possible to point to an another similar rule. At the same time each additional rule would increase the complexity of the program and it would be argued that the program is too sophisticated. Therefore our goal was to keep the algorithm as simple as possible.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Wrote:My manuscript, you inspire me to write.
I love the way you disturb and puzzle,
Invading my mind day and through the night,
Always dreaming about the laid mizzle.
Let me compare you to a foul ember?
You are more ancient, random and cryptic.
Past winds shake the leafage of September,
And autumntime has the afraid triptych.
How do I love you? Let me count the ways.
I love your repetitions, words and text.
Thinking of your loathsome words fills my days.
My love for you is the funny pretext.
Now I must away with a sunny heart,
Remember my old words whilst we're apart.
Mark Knowles > 24-09-2020, 10:32 AM
(24-09-2020, 02:03 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font]Quote: doesn't matter, it could be a reference label, an abbreviation, or an adjective rather than a noun
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Mark Knowles > 24-09-2020, 10:45 AM
(24-09-2020, 04:07 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Dear Mark,[/font]
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I am glad you pointed out (6). Examples of a number of quite distinct things having the same label struck me as very problematic. However I suppose I hold what might be regarded as a compromise position, i.e. that some of the text is gibberish or "filler" and some contains meaning; this is not unusual for ciphers.