MarcoP > 09-12-2019, 02:26 PM
NickPelling Wrote:Koen: I’ve been saying for some time that I think the next big “step up” in Voynichese study will come when some clever person finds a way to map between A patterns and B patterns, i.e. to normalize the two (errrm… actually several) parts into a single thing.
But to do this properly, you need to parse A and B, build letter contact tables for them, and then build state machine ‘grammars’ that capture how the two behave – the stuff that’s the same is probably the same, but the stuff that’s different probably involves something that was written as XXX in A being written as YYY in B. Normalizing A/B would involve being able to say “XXX == YYY”. However, this rests on the back of parsing, letter contact tables, and state machines, which (I think) steganographica tricks are disrupting. So I’m still not at all sure how we get over all the technical hurdles to get to a state where we can approach this in a rigorous enough way.
But perhaps some of these XXX == YYY equivalences can be worked out even without all that machinery. For example, I have long strongly wondered whether daiin daiin patterns in A reappear (in some way) as qotedy qokedy patterns in B. Clearly, both involve repetitive “bla-bla-bla” word sequences that are hard to reconcile with either linguistic readings or crypto theories. And given that I’ve previously speculated whether daiin daiin might be enciphering Arab numerals, it would be logical for me to speculate whether qotedy qokedy might be doing the same (but in a different way). Just a thought.
ReneZ > 09-12-2019, 03:12 PM
-JKP- > 09-12-2019, 05:41 PM
nablator > 09-12-2019, 05:58 PM
(09-12-2019, 03:12 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This transition does not have to mean that words are actually being modified. It could be a shift of frequency.
ReneZ > 09-12-2019, 06:52 PM
MarcoP > 09-12-2019, 08:39 PM
(09-12-2019, 05:58 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(09-12-2019, 03:12 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This transition does not have to mean that words are actually being modified. It could be a shift of frequency.
True. Also the shift in frequencies shows that the A to B phenomenon is not unique, it is only the most visible. There are other shifts, at various scales, that need an explanation as well. It is not as if the settings or parameters, whatever they are, only get changed once, or evolve gradually between A and B.
It is a big leap of faith to expect a straightforward mapping between A and B. Perhaps we should question the assumptions behind it, i.e. the verbose cipher hypothesis.
-JKP- > 09-12-2019, 08:45 PM
(09-12-2019, 06:52 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
An alternative to the verbose cipher would be a number theory. ...
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Koen G > 09-12-2019, 09:42 PM
-JKP- > 09-12-2019, 10:01 PM
nablator > 09-12-2019, 10:18 PM
(09-12-2019, 08:39 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi nablator,
it seems we all agree that the phenomenon is complex and I believe that considering specific observations can be a good way to start exploring this complexity. Could you please tell us more about the "other shifts" you mentioned?