davidjackson > 19-09-2019, 09:37 PM
Mark Knowles > 19-09-2019, 09:45 PM
(19-09-2019, 09:37 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Simply question - why encrypt the VM?
Assuming it is first half of 15th century - nothing was encrypted. It just wasn't necessary. Maybe a short message from one court to another would have been partially encrypted.
Yes, we had philosophical interest from the Arabs. But this isn't backed up with actual messages. What we have are intellectuals discussing the idea.
The same, but reduced, in Europe. Hildegard. Gonzanga. Rudolf IV. They all want to keep messages secret (Hildegard was frankly mad, and wanted to keep her ideas secret. She's probably the closest to a Voynich template).
But the simple fact of the matter was that nobody in the era thought it was necessary to create a more complicated code. Why? Because at the time, nobody could crack a more complicated code.
So we have short messages between intellectuals, in which nouns are written in a lookup code or substitution alphabet. It is one hell of a jump from that to a massive encrypted book.
So let's look at the mindset. Why would anyone encrypt a whole book? Because they thought it was full of personally important and confidential information? In which case, it would be the most important book from the era we have - because it would be unique. Nobody else from the era thought it important enough to encrypt their entire notebooks, let alone create an entirely new unbreakable encryption system.
Therefore, I think we can discard the notion it's encrypted. What's more, anybody arguing it is encrypted - or encoded - is arguing that it's nonsense. Because after so many attempts, until, or unless, a codebook arrives, the encryption system is lost forever, and is probably mathematically impossible to retrieve.
Mark Knowles > 19-09-2019, 09:51 PM
(19-09-2019, 09:37 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Simply question - why encrypt the VM?
Assuming it is first half of 15th century - nothing was encrypted. It just wasn't necessary. Maybe a short message from one court to another would have been partially encrypted.
Yes, we had philosophical interest from the Arabs. But this isn't backed up with actual messages. What we have are intellectuals discussing the idea.
The same, but reduced, in Europe. Hildegard. Gonzanga. Rudolf IV. They all want to keep messages secret (Hildegard was frankly mad, and wanted to keep her ideas secret. She's probably the closest to a Voynich template).
But the simple fact of the matter was that nobody in the era thought it was necessary to create a more complicated code. Why? Because at the time, nobody could crack a more complicated code.
So we have short messages between intellectuals, in which nouns are written in a lookup code or substitution alphabet. It is one hell of a jump from that to a massive encrypted book.
So let's look at the mindset. Why would anyone encrypt a whole book? Because they thought it was full of personally important and confidential information? In which case, it would be the most important book from the era we have - because it would be unique. Nobody else from the era thought it important enough to encrypt their entire notebooks, let alone create an entirely new unbreakable encryption system.
Therefore, I think we can discard the notion it's encrypted. What's more, anybody arguing it is encrypted - or encoded - is arguing that it's nonsense. Because after so many attempts, until, or unless, a codebook arrives, the encryption system is lost forever, and is probably mathematically impossible to retrieve.
Koen G > 19-09-2019, 09:53 PM
davidjackson > 19-09-2019, 10:06 PM
(19-09-2019, 09:53 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is there no middle ground then between what we should have cracked already and nonsense?Quite honestly? No, there isn't. Because anything in between would have been a leap of genius to a level above our own 21th century knowledge.
Mark Knowles > 19-09-2019, 10:10 PM
(19-09-2019, 10:06 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(19-09-2019, 09:53 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is there no middle ground then between what we should have cracked already and nonsense?Quite honestly? No, there isn't. Because anything in between would have been a leap of genius to a level above our own 21th century knowledge.
It's impossible for a 15th century cipher - as we know it - to baffle us, yet still retain retrievable knowledge.
Prove me wrong, people!
bi3mw > 19-09-2019, 10:15 PM
Mark Knowles > 19-09-2019, 10:19 PM
(19-09-2019, 10:06 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(19-09-2019, 09:53 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is there no middle ground then between what we should have cracked already and nonsense?Quite honestly? No, there isn't. Because anything in between would have been a leap of genius to a level above our own 21th century knowledge.
It's impossible for a 15th century cipher - as we know it - to baffle us, yet still retain retrievable knowledge.
Prove me wrong, people!
RobGea > 19-09-2019, 10:20 PM
Koen G > 19-09-2019, 10:25 PM