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Solved again and again ...
- Solved again and again ...
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Solved again and again ...
ReneZ > 21-06-2019, 03:41 PM
A new paper by G. Cheshire just appeared:
"The Algorithmic Method for Translating MS408 (Voynich). Gerard E. Cheshire, June 2019".
It translates portfolio 53 (right) using a host of romance languages.
I got it through academia.edu and I suspect there will be a link at his "science survey" site.
It also mentions a paper I had not yet seen:
3. Consonants & Vowels, Castles & Volcanoes: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I don't know if that link is safe. -
RE: Solved again and again ...
Anton > 21-06-2019, 04:59 PM
As a music label owner, what I like about all these solutions is that they supply off-the-shelf lyrics.
o’péna
o’qunas asa
amena sa
rolen æt o’monas amenaus
o’lena
formena
o’péna sa
This would fit for some dark folk band! -
RE: Solved again and again ...
-JKP- > 22-06-2019, 01:29 AM
Consonants and Vowels paper
GC is going to keep making up stuff until he accidentally posts something that is vaguely true (a broken watch is right twice a day) and then will leverage that into some great claim.
It's a sad replacement for real research.
I notice he is still referring to "the use of Italics" (page 2) which is a complete misunderstanding of the meaning of "Italics".
And Naples had not "evolved into early Italian" by this time, that happened centuries earlier. Naples was using medieval Italian, not "early Italian".
And saying the "monasteries would retain obsolete languages and writing systems deliberately" is completely wrong. The level of education at monasteries was so high compared to the general populace, they were the ones who established the forerunners to public school systems, and they were the ones who established many of the important scriptoria. They did not "retain" the obsolete languages, they were often at the forefront of language evolution.
There's still no grammar in his translations, and he still picks and chooses meanings from numerous languages.
We are supposed to believe transliterations like "o n as uas n"? He calls this "common abbreviated Latin phrasing". That's nonsense. I doubt if he can read medieval Latin and I strongly doubt if he has a working knowledge of Latin abbreviations. If he did, he wouldn't make this claim.
He claims that olé nasas means dangerous traps.
I couldn't even read the rest. I scanned through it. It's just more of the same from the previous papers. -
RE: Solved again and again ...
Lordadef > 22-06-2019, 04:52 AM
well, I can safely say there is no trace of any Portuguese there.
Btw, I might have missed something here but where the hell did he take the context for the given historical places? did he translate any city name, island or anything? is the historical context part of his guess work? (I am quite sure I do know the answer, but who knows..) -
RE: Solved again and again ...
-JKP- > 22-06-2019, 08:39 AM
The impression I get, from reading all the earlier papers, is that his entire premise (and storyline) is based on the fact that the lower-left rotum on the "map" folio looks like volcanic magma.
It does. But it also looks like water and nothing that he's "translated" so far points to magma more than water. In fact, in the published paper, his translation has more water-related references than volcano references (a lot of swimming and ports, etc.) which he then CHOOSES to interpret as people swimming away from the eruption rather than considering the possibility that the lower-left might be water rather than lava.
There certainly were many eruptions in that area, it's been volcanically active for milennia. But I don't see any substantive connection between his nonsense translations and Naples history. I see a lot of made up stuff about nuns who weren't there until the 17th century, and a queen with no historical record of mounting his supposed rescue mission.
Storytelling and bravado and a nonsensical substitution cipher with no grammar and no consistent language-group origin for the words. -
RE: Solved again and again ...
ReneZ > 22-06-2019, 09:16 AM
(21-06-2019, 04:59 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As a music label owner, what I like about all these solutions is that they supply off-the-shelf lyrics.
o’péna
o’qunas asa
amena sa
rolen æt o’monas amenaus
o’lena
formena
o’péna sa
This would fit for some dark folk band!
Or a new Disney movie? Translating "Hakuna Matata" into Voynichese using Cheshire's table can't be done exactly, as he has no "h" or "k" (or, in fact a "c") , so the best one can do is aquna matata:
afdy kasyg -
RE: Solved again and again ...
ReneZ > 22-06-2019, 12:57 PM
Anyway, it is interesting in a way that he is completely ignoring everything that has been said about his last paper and is just going on along the same trail.
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RE: Solved again and again ...
Koen G > 22-06-2019, 01:50 PM
So he actually still calls them portfolios. Man...
Are we sure this isn't some kind of actor performing an elaborate parody of the Voynich theorist? -
RE: Solved again and again ...
Anton > 22-06-2019, 03:04 PM
...And another group of actors performing an elaborate parody of a university. -
RE: Solved again and again ...
-JKP- > 22-06-2019, 03:42 PM
I do think it's possible You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a sundew, but there's a different drawing in the VMS that resembles Drosera even more, so I don't think Cheshire can make the claim that the identification of 53r is "beyond doubt".
Drosera intermedia has a distinct rosette of leaves at the base, they don't grow up the stem the way they are drawn in 53r, so either the illustrator has taken liberties or it's a different plant, possibly a hairy or thorny plant. The flowers are also quite different. They have five simple petals, not the numerous petals shown in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . Here are some alternate possibilities:
- Hieracium has long hairs on the leaves and lots of petals. Pilosella has quite hairy leaves, and the heads have branching flowers with lots of petals, and have a knob under the petals. Pilosella is included in many medieval herbals. Even Hypochoeris could be considered. It's known as horse's tongue or cat's ear because of the hairy leaves. Or some of the Senecios that have very hairy leaves and daisy-like flowers.
- Inula candida, and some of the other Inulas, have downy leaves that grow up the stem, branching flowers like daisies, and centers that look a bit like sunflowers.
- Asteriscus maritimus and Asteriscus aquaticus both have hairy leaves that grow up the stem, daisy-like flowers with lots of petals and centers that look a bit like sunflowers.
- Even some of the hairy species of Calendula (like C. stellata) would be a good match, or some of the hairier more daisy-like varieties of Erigeron.
- Pallenis spinosa has hairy leaves that form a rosette and grow up the stem, flower heads that branch, the flowers have lots of petals and the centers look a bit like sunflowers. It's a Mediterranean plant. Since it's a somewhat spiny plant when it dries and goes to seed, it's possible the pointy leaves in the VMS drawing are mnemonic.
Clearly there are MANY alternate IDs for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in addition to Drosera intermedia. I didn't even list them all.
I notice he is now calling it an algorithmic method. I wonder if he "borrowed" that terminology from Patrick Lockerby.
What he demonstrated in his previous paper was not an algorithmic method. There was a lot of subjective interpretation. - Hieracium has long hairs on the leaves and lots of petals. Pilosella has quite hairy leaves, and the heads have branching flowers with lots of petals, and have a knob under the petals. Pilosella is included in many medieval herbals. Even Hypochoeris could be considered. It's known as horse's tongue or cat's ear because of the hairy leaves. Or some of the Senecios that have very hairy leaves and daisy-like flowers.