Anton > 19-03-2019, 09:56 PM
MarcoP > 20-03-2019, 09:05 AM
(19-03-2019, 02:07 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
So Gvords are very, very popular to start a sentence, for whatever reason.
Next we check if paragraph-initial vords exhibit high degree of uniqueness. It turns out that (in the said folio range) 51,9% of all paragraph-initial vords are unique. We must be careful about possible inflexions, which may make these vords "not-that-unique", but generally this looks like what is a high figure. It would be less common, I think, to use unique verbs or unique words of other parts of speech for beginning of your sentence, so it is reasonable to suppose that paragraph-initial vords are, in their majority, nouns. Since they are mostly Gvords, then that makes gallows a noun-marker, be that explicit (like an article) or implicit (like a reference to a particular nomenclator), does not matter.
Now we move on to labels, the discussion of which in this thread stimulated this idea. We discussed that labels - at least some of them - do not look like plain designators. Instead they look like referrers. But very many labels start with "o", then immediately followed by gallows. Considering that a Gvord is a noun and the label is a referrer, this makes the "o" prefix a referral operator, something like "to", "related to" or "for", "intended for", "appropriate for". With this approach, the notorious "otol" is no more "otol", but instead it is "o tol" - that is, "related to tol". Notice that I don't touch the question of whether "o" is "to" or "for" in English, or "zu" or "fur" in German, I simply suggest a relational operator.
..
-JKP- > 20-03-2019, 09:47 AM
(20-03-2019, 09:05 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Grove words are paragraph-initial Gvords. These words appear to be the result of adding an initial gallows to an ordinary word. Similar observations were made by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (and John Grove himself I think).
...
ReneZ > 20-03-2019, 09:51 AM
(19-03-2019, 09:56 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Unfortunately, I can see no quick way to exclude labels from these stats, leaving calculations over narrative parts only.
Anton > 20-03-2019, 02:29 PM
Quote:in most cases, they are ordinary vords with a gallows prepended (that's why my mind keeps wanting to interpret them as pilcrows, but I try not to assume that they are).
Even those that appear to be unique vords after the gallows has been removed are usually common vords if you break them in two.
Quote:This is actually very easy to do, with any of the transcription files at the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
in combination with the IVTT tool You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
The not-so-easy part of this is that you would have to install the tool (download and compile),
and read and understand the manual.
It would be very easy for me to send you (one-off) two texts files, one with all the regular text and one with all the labels.
Just let me know.
geoffreycaveney > 20-03-2019, 06:48 PM
(20-03-2019, 02:29 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:in most cases, they are ordinary vords with a gallows prepended (that's why my mind keeps wanting to interpret them as pilcrows, but I try not to assume that they are).
Even those that appear to be unique vords after the gallows has been removed are usually common vords if you break them in two.
Yes, and I'm afraid that moving in this direction we may come to what those famous WW2 cryptographers thought it to be - a primitive form of synthetic language (did they say "very primitive"?)
-JKP- > 20-03-2019, 11:28 PM
(20-03-2019, 06:48 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I think Rene's first exercise in the "Voynich text generation" thread was very instructive in this regard, even though none of us have been able to decipher it yet. The point is, in attempting to compose his text according to the kinds of typical Voynich patterns that you are discussing here, he actually reduced the conditional entropy of his resulting text far *too* much, down to only about 1.2, whereas the Voynich MS itself in Cuva transcription actually has a conditional entropy of about 2.1. (Typical Latin/Italian/German are slightly over 3, and several examples of natural languages are in the 2.4 to 2.6 range.)
ReneZ > 21-03-2019, 06:33 AM
MarcoP > 21-03-2019, 08:08 AM
(20-03-2019, 02:29 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Let's suppose that gallows are some modifiers. That they are potential modifiers follows from the fact that gallows coverage is there. Although coverage of p and f can be theoretically written off to embellishment (although certain occurrences speak against that), coverage of t is just plainly there and cannot be written away. But let's go further and suppose that all gallows are some modifiers. If all Gvords are nouns (which, by the way, does not yet preclude other types of vords from being nouns), then there are two possibilities. Either gallows make nouns from nouns, or they make nouns from some other parts of speech.
-JKP- > 21-03-2019, 09:01 AM