DonaldFisk > 19-03-2019, 09:41 PM
(19-03-2019, 02:17 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In case people are curious about how I identified the plaintext for Don's ciphertext, it was a little bit of cryptography and a lot of philology. By philology I mean "relentless online research". Since I had mentioned 14th and 15th centuries and then Don clarified "within a century of the ms parchment dating", that pretty much gave away that it had to be an early 16th century text. So I found a very convenient list of them here:
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Eventually of course I arrived at Machiavelli and The Prince. Now the English Wikipedia only has links to English translations:
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But the Italian Wikipedia page for this work is more useful:
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And at the bottom of the page, it says, "Wikisource contiene il testo completo de Il Principe"
And from here it is a few more clicks to the text I was seeking:
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Whereupon one finds the text of the beginning of Il Principe.
And by connecting the repetition of "tutti" with the repetition of phrases at the beginning of Don's ciphertext, it is immediately clear that this has to be the plaintext.
geoffreycaveney > 19-03-2019, 09:46 PM
(19-03-2019, 09:41 PM)DonaldFisk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(19-03-2019, 02:17 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In case people are curious about how I identified the plaintext for Don's ciphertext, it was a little bit of cryptography and a lot of philology. By philology I mean "relentless online research". Since I had mentioned 14th and 15th centuries and then Don clarified "within a century of the ms parchment dating", that pretty much gave away that it had to be an early 16th century text. So I found a very convenient list of them here:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Eventually of course I arrived at Machiavelli and The Prince. Now the English Wikipedia only has links to English translations:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
But the Italian Wikipedia page for this work is more useful:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And at the bottom of the page, it says, "Wikisource contiene il testo completo de Il Principe"
And from here it is a few more clicks to the text I was seeking:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Whereupon one finds the text of the beginning of Il Principe.
And by connecting the repetition of "tutti" with the repetition of phrases at the beginning of Don's ciphertext, it is immediately clear that this has to be the plaintext.
I analysed Italian using precisely that text, here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and I got the idea of two letters per Voynichese word from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Wladimir D > 20-03-2019, 02:42 PM
nablator > 02-04-2019, 02:12 PM
-JKP- > 14-04-2019, 10:37 AM
Koen G > 14-04-2019, 01:26 PM
nablator > 14-04-2019, 04:21 PM
(14-04-2019, 01:26 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To be honest I have no idea how you guys transformed the text. Nablator, you seem to use lots of nulls to evoke Voynichese structure? But I don't understand the rest.
bi3mw > 14-04-2019, 08:14 PM
(02-04-2019, 02:12 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have been playing with a very flexible and humanly usable cipher (not a verbose homophonic substitution) that can produce many different outputs for the same plaintext (here: "errare humanum est") such as these three:Can you explain how it works exactly?
olShedy Shedy lor otar otchdy ol Shey tchy lr op eey chy dy
sair al Shedy dar otal ytchdy ol Shey tchy dor chkchary chy dy
dair al Sholy or otar ytchy dor Shey kchdy ol chkchy or chy dy
"perseuerare diabolicum" can be:
c[font=Eva]Thy dair cheeeody oldy Shedy dar otar qoky okchody keor chey ted daiin Sheol[/font]
(I am trying to optimize the keys to match Voynichese better but convergence is slow.)
An entire Rosetta stone would be needed to figure out what this means (famous motto, Latin):
oain kchaly kedy Sholy chkchy cKhy or keotal ol olSheykeees soraiin
nablator > 14-04-2019, 10:08 PM
-JKP- > 14-04-2019, 10:11 PM
(14-04-2019, 01:26 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To be honest I have no idea how you guys transformed the text. Nablator, you seem to use lots of nulls to evoke Voynichese structure? But I don't understand the rest.
JKP it's clear that your system attempts to stay closer to the source text, given the many "illegal" sequences. Still you seem to have done something to promote the desired position of o, y, gallows and i-clusters. Was this possible because of the source language or because of deviation from one-to-one substitution?