geoffreycaveney > 14-03-2019, 02:50 AM
(13-03-2019, 03:10 AM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.On the first point only: can we statistically show that [p, f] + [d] on the first line of paragraphs is the same as [d] in other lines? Assuming that your proposed values are evenly spread throughout the text, we should still see lower rates of [d] where [p, f] occur.
Emma May Smith > 14-03-2019, 03:18 AM
Davidsch > 14-03-2019, 12:03 PM
geoffreycaveney > 14-03-2019, 03:20 PM
(14-03-2019, 03:18 AM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How about just adding up all [p], [f], and [d] for each line and creating one average for all lines with some [p] or [f] and another average for those lines with none? If the former is significantly higher than the latter then we have our answer.
nablator > 14-03-2019, 05:13 PM
Emma May Smith > 14-03-2019, 09:50 PM
(14-03-2019, 03:20 PM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So to be more precise in this analysis, we would need to separate the beginnings and ends of the first lines of paragraphs, and we would need to distinguish between occurrences of [d] in words with a gallows character vs. [d] in words without one. Only the occurrences of [d] in the beginning parts of first lines, in words without any gallows characters, would rule out the three possible environments in which I conjecture that [d] may substitute for [p, f] in the ms text.
Davidsch > 15-03-2019, 02:39 PM
(14-03-2019, 05:13 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(14-03-2019, 12:03 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.quote: I propose that [d] represents a distinct letter in its own right
I fully agree, and confirm that is correct.
I propose that d is more frequent on lines that contain (or start with) p or f.
nablator > 15-03-2019, 03:34 PM
(15-03-2019, 02:39 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If that is true, no conclusion or implication would reveal us anything. If you have a suggestion I would love to hear that.
ChenZheChina > 01-04-2019, 10:03 AM
(13-03-2019, 02:47 AM)geoffreycaveney Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
* If [d] represents /u/~/v/, which would also be the labial glide /w/, and [ch] represents the palatal glide /j/, then it would be understandable that the two distinctly different glides cannot naturally be written in combination together.
geoffreycaveney > 05-04-2019, 04:31 PM
(15-03-2019, 03:34 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(15-03-2019, 02:39 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If that is true, no conclusion or implication would reveal us anything. If you have a suggestion I would love to hear that.
A quick-and-dirty count gives the following results:
To remove formatting from TT_ivtff_v0a.txt in paragraphs:
grep ",.P" TT_ivtff_v0a.txt | cut -c18- | sed "s/<->/./g;s/<$>//g;s/ //g;s/\.$//g"| grep "^[pf]" > ttpfstart.txt
grep ",.P" TT_ivtff_v0a.txt | cut -c18- | sed "s/<->/./g;s/<$>//g;s/ //g;s/\.$//g"| grep "[pf]" > ttpf.txt
grep ",.P" TT_ivtff_v0a.txt | cut -c18- | sed "s/<->/./g;s/<$>//g;s/ //g;s/\.$//g"| grep -v "[pf]" > ttnopf.txt
To compute the frequency (as a percentage) of "d" among EVA characters including "." in paragraphs:
awk -F "d" "{ll += length-1; cc += NF-1} END {print 100*cc/ll}" < ttnopf.txt
5.81984
awk -F "d" "{ll += length-1; cc += NF-1} END {print 100*cc/ll}" < ttpf.txt
6.21357
awk -F "d" "{ll += length-1; cc += NF-1} END {print 100*cc/ll}" < ttpfstart.txt
6.24086
(length-1 because I am using these UNIX tools on Windows: every line has a cr beside lf.)
These small frequency variations (5.8% in lines without p or f vs 6.2% in lines with p or f) do not tell us much, but they certainly do not suggest that d is a good candidate for a substitution of p and f.
A more plausible hypothesis IMHO than a substitution would be that p and f are inserted (no idea why, and reading discussions about "Neal keys" did not help). The (weak) evidence for this is that removing p and f very often yields words that exist elsewhere in the VMs.
After removal of p and f in ttpf.txt the frequency of d is 6.45%.