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  MarcoP > 03-03-2019, 06:20 PM

  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has been discussed by Wladimir You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
  
  I agree with much of his interpretation: the illustrator seems to be trying to visualize something unusually complex. Actually, my impression is that the red ellipse at the center-top might correspond to the rim of a cross-section; i.e. an ellipse as the result of cutting a vertical slice through an oval object. But I guess this might be an anachronism?
  Also, the alternating yellow-green structures below the red ellipse are quite complex and difficult to visualize as 3D shapes.
  
  I am curious to know if others have specific interpretations to offer, visual analogues or links to other researchers who discussed the subject.

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  Koen G > 03-03-2019, 06:37 PM

  I agree it's an object of unusual complexity, but appears to be rendered confusingly. The biggest question I have is how to interpret the green-yellow section in between the red base and the sphere. It's like a narrow shaft with a thicker one behind it? But the connection between the thick one and the rest is entirely unclear.

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  MarcoP > 03-03-2019, 06:59 PM

  (03-03-2019, 06:37 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I agree it's an object of unusual complexity, but appears to be rendered confusingly. The biggest question I have is how to interpret the green-yellow section in between the red base and the sphere. It's like a narrow shaft with a thicker one behind it? But the connection between the thick one and the rest is entirely unclear.

  
  Yes, that section is quite a mystery. A nice thing of Wladimir's "matrioshka" idea is that it highlights how the "core" is a perfectly regular container. The green-yellow section at the center and the yellow oval at the top are really confusing. The lower part (red "funnel" and below) is less messy, but it also seems unnecessary (and also too thin when compared with the thickness of the top half).

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  -JKP- > 03-03-2019, 07:20 PM

  This is my favorite container but it's 10:18 am and I've had no sleep, so I can't lucidly comment on anything other than to say, is it glass, is it a cross-section, is it two containers, one behind the other, or one inside the other?
  
  Enjoy. I gotta go.

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  Linda > 03-03-2019, 09:01 PM

  Perhaps the green is embedded in amber coloured glass, or clear, and they are trying to show the refractive designs caused by this combo.
  
  Moreover, a combination of glassblowing techniques then enhanced by cutting and or etching or perhaps enamel on top of that?
  
    
  
  These are later examples with more complexity. 
  
  But i could see putting a glob of green in or on the clear, then clear or amber overtop again and the result might look super cool especially if no one had done it before.

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  -JKP- > 04-03-2019, 02:08 AM

  I have tried very hard to find examples of cased glass (transparent fused over color, like the clear over amber in the middle of Linda's example on the left) that were made before the 16th century.
  
  Opaque-over-translucent cameo glass existed in ancient times, but it's extremely difficult to find clear glass fused over colored glass (in separate layers, not within the same layer) in curved containers that are pre-1485.
  
  I've looked reaaaaaally really hard. They might be out there, I keep hoping one will turn up, but I haven't seen one yet.
  
  
  In the Middle Ages in Syria, Egypt, Italy, and Bohemia, they used enamel to add layers of color rather than fusing the glass in layers (they knew about caned glass, different colors within the same layer, but not in separate layers for the breadth of the container).
  
  There are many examples of enameled glass in the Venetian and Corning glass museums. Here is a typical late-15th-century Venetian example from the Corning Museum. This was the popular style of design (note the dot patterns) and the more common way to fabricate them as glass moved into the Renaissance period:
  
  

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  Common_Man > 04-03-2019, 02:26 AM

  Looks more like the illustrator felt the need to convey the outer and inner diameters (the shape of the inner cavity as well) for some reason. So he drew one inside the other maybe ? Maybe he wanted to convey the amount that could be contained, roughly..

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  Koen G > 04-03-2019, 02:33 AM

  I wonder if it's possible that one object is standing behind the other. Look at the image Marco posted, that's the one on the foreground. And then some distance behind it, drawn higher for perspective, stands the green-yellow thing with the yellow dome om top.

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  -JKP- > 04-03-2019, 02:36 AM

  Koen, yes, I wonder about that too. The middle part really looks that way. The upper part less so, but maybe that's why the upper part is so difficult to interpret, because it's one behind the other.
  
  It's such an odd drawing. It doesn't quite look like one container (with transparency) or two (the base of the behind one is missing).

• RE: f89r1 bottom jar

  Linda > 04-03-2019, 05:17 AM

  It almost looks like 3 separate items, two stacked, one behind.
  
  Could it just be a vague indication of complexity?
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