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RE: Women’s Anatomy
Alyx Black > 02-02-2019, 04:55 PM
“(01-02-2019, 09:34 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Linda, I may have seen that blog. I believe she has a north European origin of Sami’s? Same person? Thank you for that terrific pic that really added another great pic to this thread!!!!!(01-02-2019, 04:52 PM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Taken from website Muslimheritage.com.
I think folks also copied from other books to gain knowledge, but the knowledge was out there. Not every book is going to survive antiquity so we don’t know everything there was out there.
In the 15th century, a Turkish surgeon, Serefeddin Sabuncuoglu (1385-1468), author of the famous manual of surgery Cerrahiyyetu'l-Haniyye, did not hesitate to illustrate the details of obstetric and gynaecologic procedures or to depict women treating and performing procedures on female patients. He also worked with female surgeons, while his male colleaques in the West reported against the female healers.
Female surgeons in Anatolia, generally performed some gynaecological procedures like surgical managements of fleshy grows of the clitoris in the female genitalia, imperforated female pudenda, warts and red pustules arising in the female pudenda, perforations and eruptions of the uterus, abnormal labours, and extractions of the abnormal foetus or placenta. Interestingly in the Cerrahiyyetu'l-Haniyye, we find illustrations in the forms of miniatures indicating female surgeons. It can therefore be speculated that they reflect the early recognition (15th century) of female surgeons with paediatric neurosurgical diseases like foetal hydrocephalus and macrocephalus.
I don't doubt there were those in that time period who may have had knowledge of such things. But how are you going to tie these images to a historical account of same when the drawings are so difficult to trace back to an origin? It is easy to say this looks like this and that looks like that, but to convince anyone that this is what was intended, it has to pull together in a specific way. Like if you could tie each image to drawings in the text you mentioned, or some other one, or various ones of which people in that field would have been aware.
For instance, with my geographical theory, i see connections like making fun of certain repeated map styles over time, so i need to find out if and where one could have seen these things to be able to comment in this way, and build up a backstory of how the whole idea came to fruition. I dont think many people go for my theory, but i just recently realized that while i was focusing on nymphs, i had allowed things drawn alike to stand for different things in reality. So i am now going back over it to resolve this, and in so doing, i found some similarly drawn things that ended up making sense and fitting with where i had put them, so for now i feel like i am still at least partially on track, although i have a lot more to do to pull it together more tightly.
That is not to say you couldn't also be correct in your thinking, i mean, it is called the biological section because many others have had the idea that it shows things similar to what you are suggesting, so in that sense you probably have a head start.
Have you seen Ellie Velinska's blog? It might help you build upon your idea. Here is her composite.
![[Image: vms+appendix.png]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pFjYTDiro1g/UjB-_vv1OsI/AAAAAAAABxY/kMz3ItF4eTw/s1600/vms+appendix.png)
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RE: Women’s Anatomy
Linda > 02-02-2019, 05:12 PM
(02-02-2019, 04:55 PM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.“
(01-02-2019, 09:34 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Linda, I may have seen that blog. I believe she has a north European origin of Sami’s? Same person? Thank you for that terrific pic that really added another great pic to this thread!!!!!(01-02-2019, 04:52 PM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Taken from website Muslimheritage.com.
I think folks also copied from other books to gain knowledge, but the knowledge was out there. Not every book is going to survive antiquity so we don’t know everything there was out there
Have you seen Ellie Velinska's blog? It might help you build upon your idea. Here is her composite.
The one you are describing belongs to Claudette Cohen. I think she identifies this particular diagram as indicating water drumming. -
RE: Women’s Anatomy
Alyx Black > 02-02-2019, 05:20 PM
(01-02-2019, 11:03 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Yes exactly, everyone for a long time started with the words, which I think we may or may not ever distinguish. If they were from a very isolated place they may have derived their own alphabet. So I started looking at the words and what others have found, got frustrated went to the botanical ( I have taken botany and a gardener), and got frustrated moved on to the figures. So when I saw this portion of the page that was just what looked to me as the fallopian area, i started to look at the biological or what they call balneological nymphs,and I started to look at it in a different way. A friend stopped over and I told her about the VM and showed her that snippet and asked what does this look like her first was Fallopian tubes, I was astounded because sometimes she’s not the sharpest tool in the tool box. My first impressions of the nymphs is that they were like indicators like flow symbols where today we might use flow charts symbols and arrows. I thought they might show “flow”?➡️(01-02-2019, 10:11 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The whole page has always looked anatomical to me, and yes, my first impression of the "coils" on the right was that they might represent a colon, and that the body part on the left middle was a penis and testicles. The ones on the lower left and right, I wasn't sure whether they might be bladder or uterus (or both).
Having said that, I agree with the comments above that the VMS appears to be shrouded in layers of meaning or combinations of symbology. Many aspects appear to have multiple interpretations and, throughout the manuscript, one gets the feeling that this is deliberate.
Agreed re layers and combinations. I was looking at Plato's analogies recently.
![[Image: cave35.png?w=500]](https://aquileana.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/cave35.png?w=500)
I guess we have to think outside the cave, so to speak.
(02-02-2019, 05:12 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You know while perusing so many websites I did see that mention of water drumming, but may have not read entire article. I need to start a proper notebook.(02-02-2019, 04:55 PM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.“
(01-02-2019, 09:34 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Linda, I may have seen that blog. I believe she has a north European origin of Sami’s? Same person? Thank you for that terrific pic that really added another great pic to this thread!!!!!(01-02-2019, 04:52 PM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Taken from website Muslimheritage.com.
I think folks also copied from other books to gain knowledge, but the knowledge was out there. Not every book is going to survive antiquity so we don’t know everything there was out there
Have you seen Ellie Velinska's blog? It might help you build upon your idea. Here is her composite.
The one you are describing belongs to Claudette Cohen. I think she identifies this particular diagram as indicating water drumming. -
RE: Women’s Anatomy
Linda > 02-02-2019, 07:44 PM
Hi Alyx,
Yes i keep opening more tabs than my tablet can handle and end up getting lost in what i was researching.
I too have spent some time on the plants, and the rosettes, and zodiac section as well.
I have a feeling that the words and letters are some sort of combination of all that has been read by the encoder, a group of anomalous glyphs that once we figure out the history of each will reveal their meaning. Just like how we now write our 4s somewhat like 5s used to be...i think it will be linked to philology, and show the history of the world in yet another way, just like how we use numbers that originated and evolved on the other side of the world.
![[Image: Numeration-brahmi_fr.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Numeration-brahmi_fr.png)
Since you told how you got your idea, i will tell you how i got mine. Not trying to convince you, just outlining so you understand what i think i can see, you never know if there could be correlations. The way i got started on my current theory of quire 13 started with this page, actually. I saw a lot in common with old maps and the rosette section, and then one day i saw that this page looked like the Aegean sea. I saw a connection in that the seven waves in the TO map rosette could mean the seven seas, and then the a lot of the rest of q13 looked like those large bodies of water to me. Then when i reordered the pages to put nearby seas in order, it made a tour of the world that sounded like several that had been done thousands of years ago.
![[Image: f077v_crd.jpg]](http://voynich.nu/q13/f077v_crd.jpg)
![[Image: greek-clipart-greece-map-14.jpg]](https://clip2art.com/images/greek-clipart-greece-map-14.jpg)
The previous page to this one i think shows the Danube river and here you can see a bunch of rivers coming from the top of the page from the other sides of the mountains where the Danube would be, i think they are shown as the tubes, and it says that fresh water goes into the Aegean Sea. See how the one on the far right goes into that straght, that is where Troy is, and i think Mount Olympus is the other side, joining Myth with History. Below that is a squiggly area that looks like the intestine bit right middle, whereas there is a two way sqiggle on the left that sort of matches the image there. I think bottom right is Rhodes, the island to the right bottom, and bottom left is Santorini, the volcano that caused flooding of Crete and wiped out the Minoans, and sort of makes the circular caldera that is bottomed by Crete and Rhodes. The tube going straight up is the indication of the flood, or tsunami.
Anyway, although this may seem incompatible with your uterus idea, take a look at this map, where Greece is in her skirt. This map may be too late by about a hundred years but that doesnt mean others couldnt have thought that way prior to the creation of this one, or could have placed Greece more toward the region of her womb.
![[Image: img-1.jpg]](https://journals.openedition.org/belgeo/docannexe/image/7711/img-1.jpg)
This one is early by about a century.
![[Image: opicinus1a.jpg]](https://dabrownstein.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/opicinus1a.jpg)
Then there is also the zodiac connection. This one is right on time.
![[Image: 461px-Anatomical_Man.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Anatomical_Man.jpg/461px-Anatomical_Man.jpg)
And then there is sacred geography, aligned with the zodiac as well.
![[Image: s0assbd1.gif]](http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/med/s0assbd1.gif)
So there are all sorts of connections that can be made and it seems that is what the manuscript talks about, connections through time and space. We just have to connect the dots properly. -
RE: Women’s Anatomy
Alyx Black > 02-02-2019, 10:56 PM
I have been doing some web surfing today and found that Catalonian or Basque from Spain almost looks like VM script. I wonder if that was ever considered. When I was researching pottery that looked like the pharmacy vials they looked Spanish.
I was also reading about this german guy named Arnold von Haarf and he made three large scale travels late 1400’s, so a lot of people took pilgrimages and travels. I found his travel translated and it very interesting.
I found this pic today which kinda reminded me of VM
Oops here is pic -
RE: Women’s Anatomy
Alyx Black > 03-02-2019, 12:43 AM
I was researching the baths and seems yes many baths were for certain symptoms including women’s issues. Remnants of these baths remain. -
RE: Women’s Anatomy
Alyx Black > 03-02-2019, 04:50 PM
Adding one more bath pic, due to the nature of the barrel, however, the caption says couple. -
RE: Women’s Anatomy
Linda > 03-02-2019, 09:09 PM
(03-02-2019, 04:50 PM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Adding one more bath pic, due to the nature of the barrel, however, the caption says couple.
And buckets and a tent and a finial, too!
Again these balnealogical items seem to be part of the manuscript at the same time time as the biological, so either it is meant to do double (or triple, or quadruple, etc.) duty in terms of what is being referred to, or it is a coincidence, and things are just drawn vaguely enough that they look like other things, or it is an obfuscation, i.e. purposefully looking like other things that are not meant. Or a combo, where things are purposefully drawn so as to morph from one of these meanings to the other, maybe just subliminally.
From the perspective of my own theory there is obfuscation, although it seems more than coincidental that there are several hot springs and suphur springs shown, and that the page order shows Ellie's body parts in order from foot to head. It kind of makes sense, if the quire is about water, not only does it flow around the world, but around our bodies, both on the ouside during bathing, and on the inside to keep our bodies hydrated and to transport nourishment and waste to their respective destinations. It could be like a micro macro mega view of the same topic at the same time.