MarcoP > 01-02-2019, 11:46 AM
Alyx Black > 01-02-2019, 04:33 PM
Alyx Black > 01-02-2019, 04:52 PM
Linda > 01-02-2019, 07:58 PM
(01-02-2019, 11:11 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-02-2019, 03:17 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why are there wolkenbands around the nymph legs?An allegoric-folkloric interpretation makes much more sense in the context of water flow that we see on many connected folios. Cherry-picking ovaries and Fallopian tubes out of our knowledge of anatomy, as tempting as it is (everyone had the same idea) does not go well with the standard symbol of air (wolkenband/cloudband). The Greeks populated rivers with nymphs, Slavic folklore had spirits of the air, vilas, and there were many local variation of folklore that made sense out of mysterious natural phenomena with the intervention of magical beings. Which particular medieval folklore this comes from is unclear, because only a few bits survived in written form. Writing down forbidden folk tales may be a good reason for using cryptography. For example in the 9th century bishop of Lyon Agobard wrote a scathing rebuttal to folk beliefs about hail and thunder "De grandine et tonitruis". If he had not written this book we would not even know about them. Paracelsus wrote, however briefly, about sylphs, elemental beings.
Why did they use blue to colour the parts?
What are the dangly things and why are there 3?
Why not show the other parts of the system?
I would be interested in any answers you might offer to these questions.
Linda > 01-02-2019, 08:54 PM
(01-02-2019, 09:19 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-02-2019, 07:33 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The 1512 man with kidneys and bladder is a woman who is pregnant and has lips in the pubic hair, it is not a penis, those are ovaries not testicles. Unless i mistook the one you meant.
You must mean another one. I'm talking about this one: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The "uterus" is labelled "vesica" which means bladder.
Also, if the dangly bits are animals' teats, wouldn't that make the middle section an udder?
nablator > 01-02-2019, 09:15 PM
(01-02-2019, 07:58 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In terms of my own theory, i think Kassandra is involved both geographically and allegorically in this diagram. Her story links the history of the world with mythology, and in fact leads to a history of history, of mythology, and of knowledge, which links up with Plato's allegories regarding truth, which connects back to Cassandra again, in terms of the truth not being believed. I see connections with quire 14 with regard to this as well.It is very possible that several myths and themes are mixed in intricate ways, and I like the way you think. The authors apparently tried to maximize ambiguity, even in the way they wrote glyphs that morphed into each other. They apparently liked to insert hidden meanings too. Maybe the most obvious are the human profile in a vine and the lion in a root. So there can be several layers of understanding, some much more difficult to grasp than others. Speculatively speaking many interpretations are possible and nothing can be 100 % certain until the text is understood. The labeled tubes on top of f. 77r and 77v could be related to astronomy through mythology. For example Eridanus was a river that the gods placed in the sky. In Hindu mythology "The Ganges River of the Sky" is the Milky Way. Similar ideas may have appeared in many places to explain how water magically appeared in the sky. That's my guess, anyway.
Linda > 01-02-2019, 09:34 PM
(01-02-2019, 04:52 PM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Taken from website Muslimheritage.com.
I think folks also copied from other books to gain knowledge, but the knowledge was out there. Not every book is going to survive antiquity so we don’t know everything there was out there.
In the 15th century, a Turkish surgeon, Serefeddin Sabuncuoglu (1385-1468), author of the famous manual of surgery Cerrahiyyetu'l-Haniyye, did not hesitate to illustrate the details of obstetric and gynaecologic procedures or to depict women treating and performing procedures on female patients. He also worked with female surgeons, while his male colleaques in the West reported against the female healers.
Female surgeons in Anatolia, generally performed some gynaecological procedures like surgical managements of fleshy grows of the clitoris in the female genitalia, imperforated female pudenda, warts and red pustules arising in the female pudenda, perforations and eruptions of the uterus, abnormal labours, and extractions of the abnormal foetus or placenta. Interestingly in the Cerrahiyyetu'l-Haniyye, we find illustrations in the forms of miniatures indicating female surgeons. It can therefore be speculated that they reflect the early recognition (15th century) of female surgeons with paediatric neurosurgical diseases like foetal hydrocephalus and macrocephalus.
-JKP- > 01-02-2019, 10:11 PM
Linda > 01-02-2019, 10:28 PM
(01-02-2019, 09:15 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-02-2019, 07:58 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In terms of my own theory, i think Kassandra is involved both geographically and allegorically in this diagram. Her story links the history of the world with mythology, and in fact leads to a history of history, of mythology, and of knowledge, which links up with Plato's allegories regarding truth, which connects back to Cassandra again, in terms of the truth not being believed. I see connections with quire 14 with regard to this as well.It is very possible that several myths and themes are mixed in intricate ways, and I like the way you think. The authors apparently tried to maximize ambiguity, even in the way they wrote glyphs that morphed into each other. They apparently liked to insert hidden meanings too. Maybe the most obvious are the human profile in a vine and the lion in a root. So there can be several layers of understanding, some much more difficult to grasp than others. Speculatively speaking many interpretations are possible and nothing can be 100 % certain until the text is understood. The labeled tubes on top of f. 77r and 77v could be related to astronomy through mythology. For example Eridanus was a river that the gods placed in the sky. In Hindu mythology "The Ganges River of the Sky" is the Milky Way. Similar ideas may have appeared in many places to explain how water magically appeared in the sky. That's my guess, anyway.
Linda > 01-02-2019, 11:03 PM
(01-02-2019, 10:11 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The whole page has always looked anatomical to me, and yes, my first impression of the "coils" on the right was that they might represent a colon, and that the body part on the left middle was a penis and testicles. The ones on the lower left and right, I wasn't sure whether they might be bladder or uterus (or both).
Having said that, I agree with the comments above that the VMS appears to be shrouded in layers of meaning or combinations of symbology. Many aspects appear to have multiple interpretations and, throughout the manuscript, one gets the feeling that this is deliberate.