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• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  Alyx Black > 01-02-2019, 01:07 AM

  This from an early 13th century manuscript from Germany, so many things about the body was known, ooops link for adding pics disappeared here is link You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  -JKP- > 01-02-2019, 01:53 AM

  I don't have time to delve into this right now (super busy), but here are some quick links to women's anatomy
  
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• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  Linda > 01-02-2019, 03:17 AM

  Hi Alyx,
  
  I have many problems with this being body parts. Entertaining the idea just leaves me with a bunch of questions.
  
  Firstly you would have to explain to me why the parts are not symmetrical. Why are there two sub-tubes on the right and not the left? Why are there vertical lines filling in the space on the right and not the left? 
  
  Why would they show an anomalous system when most people had not likely seen a standard one? 
  
  
  
  If the tubes are meant to be what we now know as Fallopian, what is with the sub-tubes at all?
  
  Why are they not shaped like tubas near the ovaries?
  
  Why are there wolkenbands around the nymph legs?
  
  Why did they use blue to colour the parts?
  
  What are the dangly things and why are there 3?
  
  Why not show the other parts of the system?
  
  I would be interested in any answers you might offer to these questions.

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  Koen G > 01-02-2019, 04:52 AM

  JKP: I'm nearly certain some of those, like the 1512 one, are bladder with kidneys, and the figure is a man. These images illustrate my point 

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  Alyx Black > 01-02-2019, 05:07 AM

  (01-02-2019, 03:17 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Alyx,
  
  I have many problems with this being body parts. Entertaining the idea just leaves me with a bunch of questions.
  
  Firstly you would have to explain to me why the parts are not symmetrical. Why are there two sub-tubes on the right and not the left? Why are there vertical lines filling in the space on the right and not the left? 
  
  Why would they show an anomalous system when most people had not likely seen a standard one? 
  
  
  
  If the tubes are meant to be what we now know as Fallopian, what is with the sub-tubes at all?
  
  Why are they not shaped like tubas near the ovaries?
  
  Why are there wolkenbands around the nymph legs?
  
  Why did they use blue to colour the parts?
  
  What are the dangly things and why are there 3?
  
  Why not show the other parts of the system?
  
  I would be interested in any answers you might offer to these questions.

  
  
  Hi Linda I think in my opinion the book shows problems of health, so I think those tubes are endometriosis and the three nodes fibroids.

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  -JKP- > 01-02-2019, 06:52 AM

  (01-02-2019, 04:52 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP: I'm nearly certain some of those, like the 1512 one, are bladder with kidneys, and the figure is a man. These images illustrate my point 

  
  I just grabbed images that showed how illustrators envisioned internal organs to get something started and to give a sense of how these images evolved between the 14th and 16th centuries in terms of accuracy.
  
  I didn't even pay attention to what the 1512 one was, actually, just grabbed it as a late example of internal organs (to show the progression in accuracy as the century went on) as I was hunting up earlier, more relevant ones. Hmmm, something's wrong with the link. When I click on it now, I'm getting the BNF image from the 15th century, rather than the one in the print book from 1512.
  
  I think the one with the man and the "baby bags" has a schematic of a woman's internals on the bottom right, but I haven't had time to look at the labels (and unfortunately can't read them now, I have to run again).
  
  
  I need a vacation.

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  Linda > 01-02-2019, 07:33 AM

  (01-02-2019, 04:52 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP: I'm nearly certain some of those, like the 1512 one, are bladder with kidneys, and the figure is a man. These images illustrate my point 

  
  The 1512 man with kidneys and bladder is a woman who is pregnant and has lips in the pubic hair, it is not a penis, those are ovaries not testicles. Unless i mistook the one you meant.

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  Koen G > 01-02-2019, 09:19 AM

  (01-02-2019, 07:33 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The 1512 man with kidneys and bladder is a woman who is pregnant and has lips in the pubic hair, it is not a penis, those are ovaries not testicles. Unless i mistook the one you meant.

  
  You must mean another one. I'm talking about this one: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  The "uterus" is labelled "vesica" which means bladder.
  
  Also, if the dangly bits are animals' teats, wouldn't that make the middle section an udder?

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  Linda > 01-02-2019, 10:17 AM

  (01-02-2019, 05:07 AM)Alyx Black Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote="Linda" pid='24658' dateline='1548987459']
  Hi Alyx,
  
  I have many problems with this being body parts. Entertaining the idea just leaves me with a bunch of questions.
  

  Quote:

  
  Hi Linda I think in my opinion the book shows problems of health, so I think those tubes are endometriosis and the three nodes fibroids.

  
  I went searching and convinced myself of some possibilities. But your reply doesn't convince me, because most of my questions are still unanswered, whereas what you said kind of erased some of the anatomy i thought i could see and replaced it with something else that i could not see at all as being so. I would need a better explanation, i guess.
  
  If the tubes are going to be anything to this effect, they'd be uterine tubes, ovarian ligaments, or blood vessels, in my opinion. I can't see how they would indicate endometriosis, which is uterine lining that escapes and goes elsewhere, to go through the menstrual cycle where it doesn't belong. How could that be a tube? If anything was going to be endometriosis, it would be the frilly stuff around what would be the uterus in the middle since there is no reason i can think of for there to be frilly stuff there.
  
  The fibroids, well, i suppose. But it isn't clear though, is it. It doesn't feel like it is telling you how to identify fibroids or what to do about them or even say 'here, look at what i found in this dead woman's abdomen...' 
  
  One ovary bigger than the other and giving more trouble, yeah maybe.  
  
  I guess i am somewhat biased since i think the quire is geographical, but i leave room for there to be other meanings intertwined. I also see a myth being involved.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  So what are the other health problems you see laid out?

• RE: Women’s Anatomy

  nablator > 01-02-2019, 11:11 AM

  (01-02-2019, 03:17 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why are there wolkenbands around the nymph legs?
  
  Why did they use blue to colour the parts?
  
  What are the dangly things and why are there 3?
  
  Why not show the other parts of the system?
  
  I would be interested in any answers you might offer to these questions.

  An allegoric-folkloric interpretation makes much more sense in the context of water flow that we see on many connected folios. Cherry-picking ovaries and Fallopian tubes out of our knowledge of anatomy, as tempting as it is (everyone had the same idea) does not go well with the standard symbol of air (wolkenband/cloudband). The Greeks populated rivers with nymphs, Slavic folklore had spirits of the air, vilas, and there were many local variation of folklore that made sense out of mysterious natural phenomena with the intervention of magical beings. Which particular medieval folklore this comes from is unclear, because only a few bits survived in written form. Writing down forbidden folk tales may be a good reason for using cryptography. For example in the 9th century bishop of Lyon Agobard wrote a scathing rebuttal to folk beliefs about hail and thunder "De grandine et tonitruis". If he had not written this book we would not even know about them. Paracelsus wrote, however briefly, about sylphs, elemental beings.
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