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• medieval references to roundels

  Davidsch > 12-09-2018, 01:34 PM

  Following some interesting stuff mentioned in relation to Diebold Lauber , 
  I just randomly browsed  the Pal Lat 1370 and was wondering how the scribe makes a reference in the text towards the roundels?
  
  Since there is only a small page number, on the right top,  I assume that was written later.
  
  take for example 
  
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  If he writes something about the the zodiacs and calculations in relation to the tables and astrological explanation, how would the scribe make a reference to the appropriate drawing?
  
  (extra image: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
  added: a fun fact in Hongarian one would write for Page 53 -> 53 oldal

• RE: medieval references to roundels

  Davidsch > 14-11-2018, 01:34 PM

  More or less, not a complete answer, but a partial answer to this question can be seen from around 1577.
  
  Here in the Florentine Codex, 
  
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  you can see that the text references to the images with simple numbers (11...12....etc) at the end of the text. 
  
  Also here
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  You can see that references in the text to other pages resembles the modern way of making a reference to "folio 48".
  
  
  background info:
  an encyclopedic work about the people and culture of central Mexico compiled by Fray Bernardino de Sahagún (1499–1590), a Franciscan missionary who arrived in Mexico in 1529, eight years after completion of the Spanish conquest by Hernan Cortés. Commonly referred to as the Florentine Codex, the manuscript consists of 12 books devoted to different topics created around 1577
  
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  for example the "...los arboles, y trastorna las paredes: y levanta grandes olas, e nel agua, las canoas qua topa e nel agua, echa las afondo, olas levanta enalta.."
  
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• RE: medieval references to roundels

  -JKP- > 14-11-2018, 06:18 PM

  Often there is no cross-reference at all for diagrams in medieval texts (they were simply placed near the associated text), and no contents or index. Even if there is a table of contents, often there were no page numbers, just a list.
  
  It was very common for someone to come along and add these things 20 or 50 years later. The same with the foliation. A high proportion of the time the foliation is in later handwriting, sometimes a century or two later (as in many of the Vatican and Lorsch manuscripts, which were foliated much later).
  
  As a reference for diagrams in Greek texts, there were frequently numbers (which are the same as letters).
  
  
  But I can guess where you are going with this... I've looked into it myself and I think it's a very reasonable possibility for the VMS labels to be cross-references rather than nouns. The assumption that they are nouns (a very widespread assumption) is not the only possibility and doesn't fit very well with how they are structured. They could be verbs (highly abbreviated) or linguistic or numeric cross-references (this seems to me more likely).
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