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Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
- Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
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RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Aurara84 > 21-05-2018, 01:49 AM
Also, just a side note: does anyone else think the women in the baths I've used in my illustration (taken straight from the manuscript), all lined up as they are, give an impression of the vein patterns on leaves? Only a hint of it, but with them all touching in a line like that it certainly gives the impression of the patterning on leaves, no? -
RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Koen G > 21-05-2018, 01:59 AM
The funny thing is that those pages which I interpret as referring to the constellations are all different ones than the ones people ususlly read as biological allegories. The one exception being the Cassiopeia nymph, which stands in a structure likened to organs or a collar bone.
Point is, even though for some nymphs I believe to have a decent understanding of their meaning, I don't know anything about the ones being discussed here. Maybe they're about plants
Laura, I'm afraid the problem with your theory, like with so many, is that it will be hard to find any external evidence. There are people like myself who believe the nymphs refer to stars and constellations. The VM would represent a novel representation, certainly, but we do know that people were used to represent heavenly bodies and constellations as human figures. Quire 13 is then analysed as an adaptation and extension of this custom.
Or, say, the radical idea that it's all about real rivers and other bodies of water, about rain cycles etc. Well we know of examples, like the marginal psalters VViews wrote about, where each river is accompanied by a nude figure. Or baptism scenes where a human personification of the river Jordan still reminds us of the pagan custom.
I don't want to convince you of either option nor change your mind about the meaning of the section, but if you want to pursue this line of investigation, you may need to find this type of external evidence. Some existing custom from which it could have evolved. -
RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Aurara84 > 21-05-2018, 01:59 AM
Just came across this book after looking for more by Taiz & Taiz following Marco's link to their article "The Biological Section of the Voynich Manuscript: A Textbook of Medieval Plant Physiology?" (link in his comment above).
This should answer my question about 15th Century understanding of plant sex (!) -
RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Aurara84 > 21-05-2018, 02:11 AM
(21-05-2018, 01:59 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The funny thing is that those pages which I interpret as referring to the constellations are all different ones than the ones people ususlly read as biological allegories. The one exception being the Cassiopeia nymph, which stands in a structure likened to organs or a collar bone.
Point is, even though for some nymphs I believe to have a decent understanding of their meaning, I don't know anything about the ones being discussed here. Maybe they're about plants
Laura, I'm afraid the problem with your theory, like with so many, is that it will be hard to find any external evidence. There are people like myself who believe the nymphs refer to stars and constellations. The VM would represent a novel representation, certainly, but we do know that people were used to represent heavenly bodies and constellations as human figures. Quire 13 is then analysed as an adaptation and extension of this custom.
Or, say, the radical idea that it's all about real rivers and other bodies of water, about rain cycles etc. Well we know of examples, like the marginal psalters VViews wrote about, where each river is accompanied by a nude figure. Or baptism scenes where a human personification of the river Jordan still reminds us of the pagan custom.
I don't want to convince you of either option nor change your mind about the meaning of the section, but if you want to pursue this line of investigation, you may need to find this type of external evidence. Some existing custom from which it could have evolved.
I agree Koen, I literally did just look through the manuscript and say the first thing I saw, which is embarrassingly un-academic! I love reading all I can on various historical topics but my handle on hard facts is vague and I tend to think in impressions of images and feelings rather than empirical evidence (that's what art school does to you!).
I'm intending to go away and read as much as I can around this idea. I was very focused on the VM itself so your comment about looking for other external evidence is very much appreciated. Context is everything!
I'll let you know if I find anything interesting...
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RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Koen G > 21-05-2018, 07:02 AM
I wish all our members were so polite
By now I've seen about every possible 15th century illuminated manuscript type, and I'm pretty sure there is nothing like an allegory about the workings of plants. I guess it could be illustrations of some unknown text, though this again would be hard to prove since we can't read the text...
By the way, as an artist what do you think about the artistic qualities of the VM?
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RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Aurara84 > 21-05-2018, 11:06 AM
(21-05-2018, 07:02 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.By the way, as an artist what do you think about the artistic qualities of the VM?
It's definitely a weird mix. It seems so odd to me that some drawings have so much detail and care lavished on them, yet some look like they've been coloured in by my 4 year old! I wonder if you think the ink used to colour could have become so faded so that in some places we're only seeing the 'hardest' marks? In some parts, particularly the botanical illustrations, I get the distinct impression that the images have been copied from ones which were originally drawn by a much more accomplished artist, and copied by someone who is less skilled - they've captured certain aspects exceptionally well and others terribly - perhaps when filling in the 'blanks' or when better source material wasn't available - just a thought.
Also, at a first glance, the women's bodies seem to be clumsily drawn (and their chin-necks are a little unfair!) but, having traced them over and over, many of them actually have quite a few redeeming and insightful elements. Some of the arms have a beautiful curve and fold describing the bicep/elbow/tricep, the author sometimes manages a very life-like curve of the hip/thighs and I love how different women have such different hair and faces. Plus on f70v1 & v2 there's an impressive range of breast shapes!
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RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Aurara84 > 21-05-2018, 11:30 AM
(21-05-2018, 07:02 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.By now I've seen about every possible 15th century illuminated manuscript type, and I'm pretty sure there is nothing like an allegory about the workings of plants. I guess it could be illustrations of some unknown text, though this again would be hard to prove since we can't read the text...
Perhaps instead I should be looking for allegories of women as a 'life force' or, as you mentioned earlier, as water itself (or minerals/food etc). Although this is obviously not such a hard link to the workings of plants.
Hildegard von Bingen likened parts of plants to parts of the human body in her 'Physica' (1150/55):
“The material in trees and wood, which is made into rope, is comparable to human veins” (Intro to the plants section)
Although, again, this isn't much of a link.
Talking of Hildegard, I thought the invention of her 'Lingua Ignota', with it's invented characters, was an interesting aside when thinking about the Voynich Manuscript - how/why/when these types of things were created in this era.
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RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
-JKP- > 21-05-2018, 01:08 PM
Another thing to note about von Bingen's work is that she described plants differently from most others of the time. It has a more narrative feel than many of the herbal manuscripts, which were very Galenistic, formulaic, and somewhat dry. -
RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
bi3mw > 21-05-2018, 01:13 PM
(20-05-2018, 10:56 PM)Aurara84 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Okay, so here's a work-in-progress shot of my repeat pattern based on this theory of the VM. ...
That looks good, regardless of theoretical considerations. For organic, flowerish patterns, there's a nice page in a 15th-century manuscript. I like this style because it is simple and not cluttered. Guess who the author is
![[Image: boethius_arithmeticha.png]](http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mwille2/VMS/boethius_arithmeticha.png)
Smithsonian Libraries, Incipit arithmeticha boetij ( De Institutione Arithmatica ), 15th century, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. -
RE: Women as allegory for the life force of plants - or just a plant biology lesson?
Aurara84 > 21-05-2018, 05:21 PM
(21-05-2018, 01:13 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That looks good, regardless of theoretical considerations. For organic, flowerish patterns, there's a nice page in a 15th-century manuscript. I like this style because it is simple and not cluttered. Guess who the author is
This Boethius dude is popular around here!
I totally agree; while I appreciate the more ornate, highly-coloured illuminations for their skill, they are quite full on for our modern sensibilities! Thanks for the feedback on my pattern. I'll share the finished article when I finally get it done. Lots more to do on it yet though.
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(21-05-2018, 01:08 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Another thing to note about von Bingen's work is that she described plants differently from most others of the time. It has a more narrative feel than many of the herbal manuscripts, which were very Galenistic, formulaic, and somewhat dry.
That woman definitely had flair!