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• Tower with ramp or external staircase

  Koen G > 14-05-2018, 07:24 PM

     
  
  I came across an image which reminded me of this tower because of one specific feature: some kind of ramp, slope or external staircase.. 
  The tower is located in Asia. I can't read the word within it, but given the religious focus of the map I guess it could represent Jerusalem?
     
  
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  MAPPA MUNDI in SALLUSTIO De bello iugurthino. Venezia, fine del sec. XIV, manoscritto, inchiostro e guazza su pergamena, 38 X 28 cm. Venezia, Biblioteca Nazionale Marciana, Fondo Ant. Lat. Z. 432, MS. 1656, fol. 40r. (Barber 2001, p. 60)

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  -JKP- > 14-05-2018, 10:06 PM

  If you look at images of the Carthusian monastery in Seitz/Žiče , you will see a good example of saddle-back roofs that came from one place and were built in another (in other words, had a somewhat multicultural flavor). This was at the time when this region was within the germanic sphere of influence (more multiculturalism).
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From Wikipedia (photo credit: Ines Zgonc)
  
  
  In the 14th century, saddle-back roofs were associated mostly with the Alsace, parts of Bavaria, and parts of Burgundy (what is now southeastern France) so... how does a saddle-back roof suddenly turn up in Bohemia (what is now Slovenia)?
  
  The monastery was built and occupied by Carthusian monks from France and they brought their customs with them. The original St. Bruno hermitage was in the French alps in what was Burgundy, just north of Provençe (a multicultural area in its own right).
  
  Carthusians weren't specifically French (there were Carthusian monasteries in a number of places, including northern England) but had strong ties to France through this origin. Some of their more eastern priory towers had onion domes rather than saddle-backs (or both).
  
  Their emblem includes seven stars (hinted at in this manuscript from Yorkshire):
  
  
  
  They were quite dedicated to literary pursuits (as long as they had ecclesiastical content) and some of the manuscripts from the remote monasteries have the same humble style of page arrangement as the VMS, including text that rambles across the page and drawings that have charm but are not of the highest artistic quality, such as those from the Mount Grace priory (others, like many of those from Žiče could be quite professional):
  
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  Medieval entry towers didn't usually have ramps or ladders but often the walls behind them had buttresses, like this one from 1397 St. Cyril-Belozersky monastery (St. Cyril was of Russian orthodox background). Note the flag finial, which is usually associated with parts farther west (the monastery also has onion domes):
  
  
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  Medieval watch towers quite often had ladders, but being made of unvarnished wood, they probably didn't last more than a dozen years or so and probably none of the original ones have survived.
  
  This tower at the Humor monastery (Romania) has a ladder built around the tower, but the original ladder may have been simpler (extending only in one direction):
  
  
  
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  I don't know what that angular thing in the VMS drawing is meant to represent (buttress? ladder? rope being tossed out? bad perspective-drawing?) but it's interesting that the illustrator took the time to include it.

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  MarcoP > 15-05-2018, 01:46 PM

  (14-05-2018, 07:24 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The tower is located in Asia. I can't read the word within it, but given the religious focus of the map I guess it could represent Jerusalem?

  
  Thank you, Koen, beautiful map!
  The red pilcrows before the most important labels in the map are not frequent, in my opinion. Interesting.
  
  The tower seems to be labeled "Jerl'm", which confirms your interpretation.

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  Koen G > 15-05-2018, 02:33 PM

  You are right to draw attention to the use of pilcrows. I also don't remember having seen them being used like this. Might be of relevance for certain gallows.
  
  Also I don't think the representation of Jerusalem is common. Why would they draw one tall tower like this? Usually it's more like a walled city or castle.

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  Anton > 15-05-2018, 02:41 PM

  Quote:Medieval entry towers didn't usually have ramps or ladders but often the walls behind them had buttresses, like this one from 1397 St. Cyril-Belozersky monastery (St. Cyril was of Russian orthodox background). Note the flag finial, which is usually associated with parts farther west (the monastery also has onion domes):

  
  That's not a good example. The monastery was originally wooden, the first stone constructions are dated to late XV century. The tower depicted dates to circa 1591, and I guess so do the walls, although they have been renovated from time to time, so I don't know the dating of the buttresses. The present roof of the tower dates to 1835

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  MarcoP > 15-05-2018, 04:28 PM

  (15-05-2018, 02:33 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also I don't think the representation of Jerusalem is common. Why would they draw one tall tower like this? Usually it's more like a walled city or castle.

  
  Since there are three crosses at the top of the tower, it may be a reference to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?
  
  See also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  bi3mw > 15-05-2018, 04:35 PM

  Jerusalem was represented in different ways. This cascaded representation is, for example, a frequently used form:
  
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  The double cross (?) Is pretty confusing

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  Koen G > 15-05-2018, 05:05 PM

  I guess the crosses are just a reference to Calvary / Golgotha, a place just outside of Jerusalem where, according to tradition, Jesus was crucified in between two thieves. Here, this symbol is used where we'd expect a flag or coat of arms.

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  -JKP- > 15-05-2018, 08:16 PM

  Anton
  

  Quote:Medieval entry towers didn't usually have ramps or ladders but often the walls behind them had buttresses, like this one from 1397 St. Cyril-Belozersky monastery (St. Cyril was of Russian orthodox background). Note the flag finial, which is usually associated with parts farther west (the monastery also has onion domes):

  
  That's not a good example. The monastery was originally wooden, the first stone constructions are dated to late XV century. The tower depicted dates to circa 1591, and I guess so do the walls, although they have been renovated from time to time, so I don't know the dating of the buttresses. The present roof of the tower dates to 1835
  
  
  
  All I wanted to illustrate with that specific picture was that there were sometimes buttresses in the walls (and buildings) behind towers, which might account for the angled line associated with a drawing of a tower in the VMS. The simple buttresses have been around since antiquity and had already developed into flying buttresses by the 12th century, so they certainly existed at the time the VMS was created (and, of course, buttresses are only one way to interpret the line on the VMS tower, there are others).
  
  I'll grant that the flag finial is probably a later add-on, although flag finials can be seen in drawings from the 14th and 15th centuries from Bavaria and the Alsace, but not usually that far east until after the 15th century.

• RE: Tower with ramp or external staircase

  Davidsch > 16-05-2018, 01:43 PM

  (15-05-2018, 04:35 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Jerusalem was represented in different ways. This cascaded representation is, for example, a frequently used form:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  The double cross (?) Is pretty confusing

  
  
  The cross on the tower reminds me of the Cross pattée, probably the Templar cross variant.
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