- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
- Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
-
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
Ahmet Ardıç > 09-04-2024, 08:40 PM
This plant (root), which the author wrote in the form AFŞAR, is called "AFŞAR OTU" in modern Türkiye Turkish. Here, the word "OTU" means "herb", and in general in Turkish, this word is used to mean plant, herb and/or herbs. In other words, the species name of the plant is actually written only in the form AFŞAR in modern Turkish. In the manuscript, the author wrote the name of this plant in her/his own dialect (about 600 years ago) as OFŞAR. As can be seen, despite the passage of hundreds of years, there is a minor phonetic difference, which can be considered quite insignificant, between the OFŞAR form written by the author and the AFŞAR form in modern Turkish.
AFŞAR herb (asarum europaeum) is a plant species from the puerperal herb family (Aristolochiaceae) and has different varieties. Types of this plant growing in different genera or geographies also have roots with different appearances. Since we are not plant scientists here, we will not comment on which subspecies the plant-root structure drawn on page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. resembles more. We can get help from plant scientists in this detail. There are also people who call this plant "wild ginger".
This plant is also known as "loğusa otugiller familyasından" in Turkish (& pulperal in English). This shows that the plant may have something to do with women's pregnancy or post-pregnancy medications.
So that;
The word "pulperal" is an adjective, means "during or relating to the period of about six weeks after childbirth during which the mother's reproductive organs return to their original nonpregnant condition." (based on google)
Note: According to practice in some regions, the roots of this plant are placed in the dowry chests of newly married girls to give them a scent.
To see the Turkish and English (/Latin) names of the plant and the accuracy of this information, please see:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
&
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Thus, the number of words matching the drawings became 111. Of course, this figure will continue to increase, just like the number of complete sentences and pages read. -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
Koen G > 09-04-2024, 09:54 PM
How does it even remotely resemble that plant's root though? -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
Ahmet Ardıç > 10-04-2024, 01:13 PM
Hi Koen,
Thank you for the question. Essentially, I think it would be useful to have detailed information about the structure of the drawn object or thing in order to understand whether the drawings and texts match. For example, I do not think that I can interpret these overlaps as well as those whose profession is plant science. But if you remember, we have previously shown that many drawings made with word overlap are realistic.
Plant scientists will be able to say more clearly what kind of root structure different genera of this plant have at different stages of development. In the meantime, let's assume that the author has the ability to draw realistically, which may not be the case.
Of course, there are also details that we can know without being a botanist. For example, in many plant species, the roots are thinner and softer during the young/seedling stage of the plant. As the age/development of the plant increases, the roots become thicker and harder.
So, I must say that I have not yet come across any information (for any plant) during our readings about whether the author drew a young plant or how many months or years old the plant was drawn. As a single exception, we saw that in the drawing of the pomegranate plant, the name of this plant was written in the form of baby-pomegranate. I have shared my reading about this before.
We have also previously shown that some plants such as cucumber, onion, myrtle (murtus) tree and sesame in VM pages be drawn almost in realistic way. You can see these in my posts on previous pages and on our own page.
You can see here > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Now, if you allow me, I would like to ask a question to you and everyone who reads my comments/shares on these pages.
As you remember, we showed that on the pages where SAZAK (murtus), MUZ (banana) and SUSAM (sesame) plant drawings were made, the author wrote the names of these plants as SAZAK, MUZ and SUSAM, exactly as they are today. In other words, there has been no phonetic change in the spelling of the names of these plants in the approximately 600 years that have passed. Do you see these findings as a clear pattern and name overlap/match? Do the drawings of these plants look like real-life photos of the plants? If you do not qualify these as overlaps, what are the scientific criteria for you or science to accept them as clear overlaps?
We showed 112 (currently/today) drawing word matches. In most of them, the drawing and the written name match each other. Moreover, we clearly know that the author created new species by grafting/combining some plants and named them herself. We know this because she/he named the new species by combining two separate moss types (liverwort genera).
See > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Moreover, the author's naming of plant grafting, which is the naming of the grafting process of plant species, has also been read on different pages. Moreover, drawing word overlaps were detected and explained by us not only in plant names, but also in star names, animal names, actions and organ names. All of these are findings and developments parallel to our expectations based on our reading of the content.
Hearing the supportive words of every researcher who wants to support our work will please us and motivate us to work harder. Of course, we have nothing to say to people who say that they find all of them inconsistent based on the 112 drawing-word matches we have shown, or to those who do not speak at all. I personally think almost all of these overlaps are consistent. Moreover, if pronouns/nouns and verb-words etc written exactly as they are today, without changing their phonetic structure in 600 years, have been identified, we hope that the researchers who have seen this will have something to say about our correct study direction.
Thanks.
Now please allow me to make some reminders:
You can see our previous post about reading the plant name SAZAK (MURTUS) from drawing word matches on this page >
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
&
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
&
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You can see our previous post about reading the SUSAM (SESAME) & MUZ (banana) plants name from drawing word matches on this page >
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You can see our comment about the baby pomegranat written page here again >
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
&
On this page, we also explained how we read the sentence containing this word > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
&
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
On the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. page in VMS, the first word of the eighth line is written as ÇNOR.
In the Turkish language, the words Ça/Çaa and the words ÇOCUK (child) (ça/çaa is the root of the word, taking the diminutive suffix -cık/-cuk) are used to mean baby and child. As can be seen, these words start with the sound Ç and the author either shortened this word here or read the sound Ç with the vowel A as [Ça]. (We know this clearly because on a page where an author drew two creatures resembling worms at the root of a plant, she/he wrote that they were baby-snakes in the same way, and on the page where a dragon was drawn, she/he used the Turkish name in meaning baby-dragon/child-dragon. These were shown by us as a drawing-word match, those who follow our posts can be remember these details.)
If the author wrote this word today, she/he would use one of the words ÇA+NOR, ÇA+NAR, ÇAA+NAR, ÇAĞA+NAR, ÇAA+NOR in different dialects. These words are not written as compound words today. This was written as a compound word in VMS.
Ç+ NOR
Ça + NAR
Çaa + NAR
Çağa + NAR
The words (shortened) Ç & ÇA or ÇAA / ÇAĞA all means 'baby' and 'child'. So it says 'baby pomegranate' here in the page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
NAR (POMEGRANATE)
The word is used in 'NAR' phonetic format in Anatolian dialects. Today, in some Özbek-Turkish dialects, the same word is voiced as NOR/ANOR.
See relevant glossary pages here >
[Sözce Sözlük, Ç/Ça=ÇOCUK, BEBEK (child, baby): <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
[Sözce Sözlük, ÇOA=ÇOCUK, BEBEK:< You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
[Sözce Sözlük, ÇAA=ÇOCUK, BEBEK: <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.]
[Sözce Sözlük, ÇOĞA=YAVRU, BEBEK:<You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
[Sözce Sözlük, ÇOĞ=ÇOCUK, BEBEK: <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
[Sözce Sözlük, ÇAĞA Moğolca ÇAKA <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
[The source of the pomegranate plant image is:<You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
[NAR (pomegranate) <You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>]
The banana photoes from > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You can see our previous statement about the MUZ (BANANA) / MUZU (THE BANANA) plant on this page >
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
When we announced that we had read the name of the banana plant, some researchers asked why the leaves had a form with rounded contours in the banana drawing on the VM page. I asked this question to one villager who grows bananas in the Anamur region of Turkey. He gave me the following answer:
"Banana leaves sometimes dry out and turn black at the tips in extremely hot weather and due to some small organisms that damage the plant. In the past, we used to cut off the leaf tip parts that started to dry. This way, the leaves had a round appearance. This process dates back to the period before modern agriculture." & "It is a type of leaf pruning that has been practiced for a long time. It is thought that a practice such as pruning the branches/arms that have begun to dry and cutting off the tips of the dried leaves slows down the drying of the plant."
If you look at the banana drawing on the VM page, you will see that the leaves on the top are not round and are elongated-form. Because the plant gives new fresh shoots from its upper/end part. There is no need to prune these fresh parts. However, as can be seen in the VM page drawing, the leaf on the lower right side has been drawn blackened/dried at the ends. The lower left leaf and right leaf were looks like drawn, possibly depicted as pruned/scissors-cut.
I think the lower right leaf may have been drawn depicting it as continuing to dry even though it has probably been pruned. Meanwhile, a complete realistic overlap will be seen in the drawing of the fruits. In addition, it is understood that the name of this fruit was in the author's mouth and writing form 600 years ago, in the same way as today's modern Turkish. In other words, there has been no change in the phonetic spelling of this fruit name despite the passing centuries. These are complete overlaps of drawings and text.
Additionally, in the drawing, it can be seen that some of the outer (old) arms/branches of this plant have also been pruned. This process was probably done because they dried out or got sick. In this way, it was thought that the disease or drying would not progress to healthy branches or this progression would be slowed down.
You can see the meaning of the name MUZ in the Turkish dictionary here >
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
-
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
Ahmet Ardıç > 14-04-2024, 10:47 AM
In my previous statement, I mentioned and demonstrated that the names of several different plants drawn in the VM can be read on the pages where these drawings were made without undergoing any phonetic changes over 600 years. When I look at how these plants appear in real life, I see these readings and drawings as corresponding to each other.
However, I'm also curious about the following:
Aren't there linguists and botanists on the Voynich Ninja platform here who can interpret these? If so, can a botanist, for example, tell which plant these drawings resemble the most?
Does one need to know Turkish or be a linguist to find the Turkish equivalents of the words banana, myrtus, sesame, pomegranate in an online dictionary to compare these with the plant names written on these pages by using our ATA alphabet transcription to see a 1/1 phonetic match and express it here in this page?
Are we the only ones who believe that these matches we indicate here on the Voynich Ninja platform are clear matches?
You don't necessarily need to know Turkish to answer these questions. Why is it important to answer these questions on this platform?
Because the author/authors was probably a multilingual person who traveled around Europe at that time and used some words from European languages within Turkish words and sentence structures. Since we cannot read these words, it will be difficult to translate many sentences into today's language. Almost most Turkish linguists (or all as I know) working on the Turkish language are not with great knowledge about Ancient Greek, Latin, or the dialects and languages spoken in medieval Italy. When it becomes clear that the content of the VM is in Turkish, than it may be known that particular European language linguists & Turkologists linguists can be understand that they should have been work together in this VM-reading study in the future. Therefore, we expect researchers in this group to examine, criticize, or express their own opinions about our claims and the correspondences we propose. By doing so, you can contribute to expediting the process.
Thank you for reading. -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
pjburkshire > 14-04-2024, 11:45 AM
(14-04-2024, 10:47 AM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When it becomes clear that the content of the VM is in Turkish, than it may be known that particular European language linguists & Turkologists linguists can be understand that they should have been work together in this VM-reading study in the future. Therefore, we expect researchers in this group to examine, criticize, or express their own opinions about our claims and the correspondences we propose. By doing so, you can contribute to expediting the process.
Have you had any luck at all with any word on f67v2?
What about words for Sun or Moon? There are multiple illustrations with images of the Sun and the Moon. I would expect these word would be in the text somewhere.
I believe the swirly thing in the box in the middle of f67v2 is a soul, not a star.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
R. Sale > 14-04-2024, 11:26 PM
That's a good idea for any proposed solution. Take a list of generic words: sun, moon, star, planet, soul, leaf, stem, flower, root, water, night, day, hot, cold, etc., translate them *into* Voynichese according to the proposed system, and see if they exist in the VMs text. -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
Ruby Novacna > 15-04-2024, 11:07 AM
(14-04-2024, 11:26 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's a good idea for any proposed solution. Take a list of generic words: sun, moon, star, planet, soul, leaf, stem, flower, root, water, night, day, hot, cold, etc., translate them *into* Voynichese according to the proposed system, and see if they exist in the VMs text.
It's an excellent idea, the only condition would be to master the language of the 15th century. -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
ReneZ > 15-04-2024, 11:59 AM
(15-04-2024, 11:07 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-04-2024, 11:26 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's a good idea for any proposed solution. Take a list of generic words: sun, moon, star, planet, soul, leaf, stem, flower, root, water, night, day, hot, cold, etc., translate them *into* Voynichese according to the proposed system, and see if they exist in the VMs text.
It's an excellent idea, the only condition would be to master the language of the 15th century.
Nothing against you, but I don't understand that condition.
Anyone proposing a solution must have some confidence in the language that they are proposing.
The challenge posted by R.Sale has been proposed many times. Use the proposed method (cipher, substitution method) to encode common words, and demonstrate that these occur in the MS.
This has never been taken up by anyone.
I argue that this is because it does not work, and it would show clearly that the proposed system does not work.
And they know it.
This is a call out to anyone with a specific solution proposal.
Take this challenge and show the strength of your theory. -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
nablator > 15-04-2024, 12:39 PM
There is nearly always (as in this case) some special pleading: the exact language/dialect is not identified or lost, there could be a mix of several languages, the transliteration has to be arbitrarily modified, the text has sometimes (when it's convenient) nothing to do with the illustrations, etc. No falsifiability whatsoever. -
RE: Calgary engineer believes he's cracked the mysterious Voynich Manuscript
pjburkshire > 15-04-2024, 01:19 PM
I don't know what language the Voynich Manuscript is written in so I don't have anything that I would call a theory or even a hypothesis. All I have are wild guesses. Currently my best guess would be that it is some variation of Middle High German.
I do not believe the text was intentionally encoded. I think we just don't know what alphabet or font they used.
Anyone here read Aurebesh? My point is that even English look illegible when written is a strange script or font.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And I have trouble reading Shakespeare from 425 years ago and English is my native language.