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f86v3: A bird and a Mountain.

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• f86v3: A bird and a Mountain.

• RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain.

  -JKP- > 15-10-2020, 06:01 PM

  I collected a lot of birds and one of the things I noticed is that it is rare to draw the feathers with dots and the VMS tail is not a common style. Usually they used scaly patterns or short dashes for feathers.
  
  The stick feet are fairly common. I have many examples, but they rarely have dots for feathers.
  
  Here's one with stick feet but it doesn't have dots on the body, and another with stick feet and scaly feathers:
  
           
  BL Additional 15243        Cod. Fab XVI
  
  
  This one is interesting because of the curved cloud shape top-left and the lines coming out behind the bird, and the one in the middle is the same general idea but there are no lines behind the bird and the rightmost has lines around the bird:
  
                   
  
  Speculum Humanae Ausgburg   Losbuch 642     Lyon Ms 1351
  
  Two of these have dots instead of lines or scales, and all have stick feet. The second one has a beak similar to the VMS, but sharper:
  
     
  
  Cambrai Ms 422
  
  This has dots and stick feet but it's not flying, but notice the marginal drawing, someone trying to copy it who added dots into the bumps on the tree:
  
     
  
  Bodleian Ashmole 304
  
  This one from the same manuscript is interesting because it has dots on the neck and an unusual tail (similar to some of the VMS plants):
  
     
  
  Some of these have dots or very short dashes for the feathers, but they don't have stick feet:
  
     
  
  Bodley Ashmole 304
  
  I have about 100 more but those are the ones that particularly caught my attention.
  
  
  The bird Marco found, the green and brown one, is closer than any I have found. The only thing it lacks is stick feet.

• RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain.

  Searcher > 15-10-2020, 06:48 PM

  My general thought wasn't exactly "nosediving bird". Yes, my examples show exactly that detail, but I actually meant just "the descent of the dove", as it flies from heaven down to the Earth. There are many pictures with the same scenes with the dove in another positions in manuscripts and icons. The more important detail, I think, is a kind of flow, wich carries the bird. Biblical sources describe the scene of the descent of the Holy Spirit, as accompanied with the sound and wind from heaven. Some of them mention "tongues of fire", as well. As for me, it is interesting that the VMs bird descending from the top (heaven?) is carried by a flow that directed to the opposite side (bottom left, the rock and the man), but it is hard to define its nature.
  Also I somehow noted that the man behind the rock (or volcano) throws  away something, and it looks like liquid, but one part of it reminds the image of an eye. Or maybe he catches it?
  Maybe, it means the gift of prevision?
  I mentioned earlier that some strange stains remind images of eyes, they are still there. Possibly, they are just pareidolia, but maybe not.

• RE: f86v3: A bird and a Mountain.

  bi3mw > 15-10-2020, 07:32 PM

  (15-10-2020, 06:01 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Cod. Fab XVI

  I'm not sure if the example in Cod. Fab XVI is a phoenix. It looks like there are flames on the platform.
  Often the phoenix was depicted on its nest (As @Koen already mentioned it has be a very well hidden phoenix without fire if there is a connection to the VMS):
  
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  Fenix der Fogel ( Phoenix, the bird )
     
  Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg, Schedel, Hartmann,
  Liber chronicarum, 1493
  
  A phoenix rising from the still-glowing ashes of the fire that consumed its previous incarnation.
     
  Bestiary of Ann Walsh. England, 15th century. Kongelige Bibliotek,
  Gl. kgl. S. 1633 4º, fol. 37v.
  
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  (15-10-2020, 06:48 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As for me, it is interesting that the VMs bird descending from the top (heaven?) is carried by a flow that directed to the opposite side (bottom left, the rock and the man), but it is hard to define its nature.

  
  I perceive this in the same way. Therefore one could assume that the bird in the nest and the man in the upper left are also connected in some way.
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