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Morten St George Theory
- Morten St George Theory
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RE: Morten St George Theory
Koen G > 30-03-2019, 12:10 AM
Water lily lends support to nothing. In fact, it's one of the few places where the VM does touch known herbal traditions.
The supposed sunflower is most likely a cereal crop like millet. It's beyond me that actual botanists think it can be a sunflower with leaves like those. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 30-03-2019, 03:23 AM
(29-03-2019, 09:52 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
The flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a large, round, flat head which looks like it would turn to face the sun for nourishment.
...
I'm not sure where you got this idea, but the sunflower head does not face the sun, it faces east. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 30-03-2019, 03:26 AM
(29-03-2019, 09:52 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
The flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a large, round, flat head which looks like it would turn to face the sun for nourishment. I did not originate the idea that it is a sunflower.
The flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was, many years ago, widely accepted as being a sunflower. In fact, back in the early days of VMS research (pre-radio carbon days), scholars who had dated the VMS to the 15th century or earlier were suddenly forced to change their mind.
Have you found a plant native to Europe that resembles the sunflower? If so, please point me to a picture of it.
Look at the third strip of pictures from the top. See that flower head in the bottom-left along with the other pictures of flower heads?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 30-03-2019, 05:07 AM
(30-03-2019, 12:10 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Water lily lends support to nothing. In fact, it's one of the few places where the VM does touch known herbal traditions.
The supposed sunflower is most likely a cereal crop like millet. It's beyond me that actual botanists think it can be a sunflower with leaves like those.
I agree with you on the leaves but it wasn't my idea. As far as I know, botanists remain unable to identify most the VMS plants, so I consider it a mistake to attribute those plants to Europe or any other geographic location. On botany, the VMS is a maze of contradictions and uncertainties. Best to leave it at that for the time being. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 30-03-2019, 05:10 AM
(30-03-2019, 03:23 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(29-03-2019, 09:52 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
The flower on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a large, round, flat head which looks like it would turn to face the sun for nourishment.
...
I'm not sure where you got this idea, but the sunflower head does not face the sun, it faces east.
I found the following on a science website:
Quote:Sunflowers are fascinating little specimens of nature, and they allow us to see first-hand how plants are not the static beings we think them to be. These special flowers actually face the sun as it rises in the east and follow it across the sky until it sets in the west.
This phenomenon is known as "heliotropism," which apparently ceases when the plants mature, whereupon they "generally face east," as you say. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 30-03-2019, 05:24 AM
(30-03-2019, 03:26 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Look at the third strip of pictures from the top. See that flower head in the bottom-left along with the other pictures of flower heads?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
JP, I view the Voynich large plants as fantasy plants that incorporate real-plant elements. So what are we arguing about? You'd need to establish a positive ID on at least a dozen of those plants to convince me otherwise. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 30-03-2019, 05:25 AM
Yes, I know it's called heliotropism. I guess I was oversimplifying, but to oversimplify some more... sunflowers do not "follow" the sun. It's a circadian rhythm. They cycle at night, as well:
From recent experiments:
"...as she and her group detail in a recent Science paper, Harmer found that plants left in the dark would continue to make their rounds for a while, even without the sun to track."
So it's not as simple as saying they are heliotropic. They don't "follow" the sun. They are facing east before the sun comes up.
Also, it's the stem that orients (not the head, the head simply follows). The stem does it before there are any heads.
It might have something to do with pollination (they're not sure yet). Heads facing a certain way get more visits from pollinators than heads facing in other directions.
Don't get me on the subject of plants. I can talk about them indefinitely. Plants are endlessly fascinating and we don't know very much about them. They have discovered some that are genetically more complex than humans. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
Morten St. George > 30-03-2019, 06:49 AM
(30-03-2019, 05:25 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, I know it's called heliotropism. I guess I was oversimplifying, but to oversimplify some more... sunflowers do not "follow" the sun. It's a circadian rhythm. They cycle at night, as well:
From recent experiments:
"...as she and her group detail in a recent Science paper, Harmer found that plants left in the dark would continue to make their rounds for a while, even without the sun to track."
So it's not as simple as saying they are heliotropic. They don't "follow" the sun. They are facing east before the sun comes up.
Also, it's the stem that orients (not the head, the head simply follows). The stem does it before there are any heads.
It might have something to do with pollination (they're not sure yet). Heads facing a certain way get more visits from pollinators than heads facing in other directions.
Don't get me on the subject of plants. I can talk about them indefinitely. Plants are endlessly fascinating and we don't know very much about them. They have discovered some that are genetically more complex than humans.
Thanks for updating us on the status of plants.
While I am fairly happy classifying the large plants as fantasy, I'm not so sure about the small plants in the pharma section. From what I hear, native Americans were quite big on herbal medicine, so I'd say there's a far greater chance that the small plants are real plants. What's your opinion on that? -
RE: Morten St George Theory
davidjackson > 30-03-2019, 07:03 AM
Quote:So it's not as simple as saying they are heliotropic. They don't "follow" the sun. They are facing east before the sun comes up.
Don't look up the Spanish name jkp, that would really about you.
They are called girasoles - lit. Turners toward the sun. -
RE: Morten St George Theory
-JKP- > 30-03-2019, 07:06 AM
(30-03-2019, 07:03 AM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:So it's not as simple as saying they are heliotropic. They don't "follow" the sun. They are facing east before the sun comes up.
Don't look up the Spanish name jkp, that would really about you.
They are called girasoles - lit. Turners toward the sun.
LOL!!
It might be more accurate to call them "sun anticipators" maybe something like preverisoles. Except then you have to get in the part about them turning at night, as well. Hmmm, that could get complicated.