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• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 08-02-2018, 05:55 AM

  Quote:Morten St George: One way to determine location is to make lots of assumptions. For example, let's assume, for the biology gals, that they are in the native habitat of the Nymphus Americus. We can also assume that this habitat is also the native habitat of the alligator gar, a fish depicted on F70r.

  
  I located half a dozen Old World fish species that look like the VMS Pisces, so it's not necessarily alligator gar on f70r.
  
  In fact, I have found, and other researchers (such as MarcoP) have found fish drawings in pre-Columbus medieval manuscripts that are drawn in a very similar way to the VMS fish.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 09-02-2018, 01:53 AM

  (08-02-2018, 05:55 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  Quote:Morten St George: One way to determine location is to make lots of assumptions. For example, let's assume, for the biology gals, that they are in the native habitat of the Nymphus Americus. We can also assume that this habitat is also the native habitat of the alligator gar, a fish depicted on F70r.

  
  I located half a dozen Old World fish species that look like the VMS Pisces, so it's not necessarily alligator gar on f70r.
  
  In fact, I have found, and other researchers (such as MarcoP) have found fish drawings in pre-Columbus medieval manuscripts that are drawn in a very similar way to the VMS fish.

  
  I did a Google images search on 'medieval Pisces' and it looks like the VMS fish have longer noses and scalier skin than the European depictions, but perhaps not enough to conclude that the VMS fish are uniquely alligator gar. I noticed that some of the fish were attached with a string, so I have removed the 'fishing' comment from my website. Thanks.
  
  When I get the chance, I will post a summary of my arguments for authorship by Cathars. The matter is important as it would push back the botanical research some 150 years in time, making the current VMS merely a copy of earlier writings.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 09-02-2018, 04:37 AM

  I don't know how many images of Pisces you saw in a Google search, 20? 40? 200?, but I have been collecting full zodiacs for many years and have more than 500, and there are a number of Pisces images that are similar, not many, but some.
  
  The one that MarcoP brought to our attention, one that I had overlooked even though I had seen the manuscript, was the fish in SachsenSpiegel (a law book). It is not specifically associated with a zodiac, but very similar to the VMS drawing.
  
  
  Also, I noticed you referenced Wikipedia. I hope you realize that quite a lot of the content on Wikipedia has come from the blogs of people on this forum. I've noticed a number of passages that are only slightly reworded from things various of us have posted online. Many people who edit Wikipedia (which is thousands) are not specifically acquainted with the materials they are transcribing. They are doing Google searches and basically consolidating what they locate—not all are experts.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 09-02-2018, 07:35 PM

  (09-02-2018, 04:37 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know how many images of Pisces you saw in a Google search, 20? 40? 200?, but I have been collecting full zodiacs for many years and have more than 500, and there are a number of Pisces images that are similar, not many, but some.
  
  The one that MarcoP brought to our attention, one that I had overlooked even though I had seen the manuscript, was the fish in SachsenSpiegel (a law book). It is not specifically associated with a zodiac, but very similar to the VMS drawing.

  
  It always seems better to base conclusions on the general rule rather than on rare exceptions to the rule. I am aware that the VMS zodiac drawings are solidly European in conceptualization but it is only because of the nudity (already in the swamps) on the Pisces page that makes me suspect that they might have swapped the European standard for a local variety.
  
  I see that the abiril zodiac is depicted twice, once as a meeting of European perfecta (a mixture of men and women fully clothed) and once as a meeting of swamp perfecta (naked women) suggesting before and after depictions: a migration from Europe to the American swamps.
  
  They might not have stayed in the swamps very long. Might have moved further south to avoid the cooler weather of winter if nothing else. The diversity of herbal roots in the pharmaceutical section looks like more than can be found in the swamps. Unfortunately, many plant photographs do not show the roots. Are you able to identify any of the roots shown on the herbal medicine pages?

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 09-02-2018, 09:09 PM

  (09-02-2018, 04:37 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, I noticed you referenced Wikipedia. I hope you realize that quite a lot of the content on Wikipedia has come from the blogs of people on this forum. I've noticed a number of passages that are only slightly reworded from things various of us have posted online. Many people who edit Wikipedia (which is thousands) are not specifically acquainted with the materials they are transcribing. They are doing Google searches and basically consolidating what they locate—not all are experts.
  

  
  Wikipedia, in the second sentence of its article on the VMS, refers to northern Italy as the likely source. Someone said this notion is based on the following drawing:
  
  
  
  Can anyone, other than me, envision that they are depicting a fortress on top of a mountain with vertical slopes?
  
  This is what a mountain with vertical slopes looks like:
  
  
  
  It's Montségur mountain in SW France. Here's a medieval illustration of the Montségur fortress, last stronghold of the Cathars:
  
  
  
  Note a coned tower with balcony and window underneath, and compare with the VMS drawing.
  
  Prior to retreating to the Montségur fortress, the Cathars lived in other places including the fortress at Carcassonne. This here is the VMS depiction of the Carcassonne fortress:
  
  
  
  And here is a photograph of the three coned towers of the Carcassonne fortress:
  
  
  
  Compare the shape of the doorway with the doorway in the VMS depiction. Above all, note that, after 800 years, even the flag poles are still there!
  
  
  
  This medieval painting depicts Cathars being expelled through one of the doorways (same shape) of Carcassonne. Note the unique top-of-the-head hair style worn by the Cathars and compare it with the hair style of the manuscript's author:
  
  
  
  Overriding the merlon design (possibly adopted by Italian Cathars in remembrance of the 200 Cathars who were burned alive at Montségur) are the coned towers: this is a feature of French, not Italian, architecture.
  
  With a positive ID on the Carcassonne fortress in France, there is no need to assume authorship in northern Italy.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 09-02-2018, 11:39 PM

  Quote:Morten St George: Can anyone, other than me, envision that they are depicting a fortress on top of a mountain with vertical slopes?

  
  It's rather common for Voynich researchers to discuss various cliffs and mountains and escarpments in the VMS "map" page, so I would say that many people, other than you, envision mountains and fortresses and other topological details on this folio.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  nablator > 10-02-2018, 02:54 AM

  (09-02-2018, 09:09 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Overriding the merlon design (possibly adopted by Italian Cathars in remembrance of the 200 Cathars who were burned alive at Montségur) are the coned towers: this is a feature of French, not Italian, architecture.
  
  With a positive ID on the Carcassonne fortress in France, there is no need to assume authorship in northern Italy.

  Hi Morten St George,
  
  The coned towers of Carcassone didn't exist until the 19th century. The architect Viollet-le-Duc took upon himself to improve the original design.
  
  

  Quote:Another of his most famous restorations, the medieval fortified town of Carcassonne, was similarly enhanced, gaining atop each of its many wall towers a set of pointed roofs that are actually more typical of northern France. Many of these reconstructions were controversial.

  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  About the Prophecies of Merlin, I am trying to understand how you link them to a selection of quatrains from the Centuries of Nostradamus. Can you explain?

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 10-02-2018, 07:48 AM

  (10-02-2018, 02:54 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (09-02-2018, 09:09 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Overriding the merlon design (possibly adopted by Italian Cathars in remembrance of the 200 Cathars who were burned alive at Montségur) are the coned towers: this is a feature of French, not Italian, architecture.
  
  With a positive ID on the Carcassonne fortress in France, there is no need to assume authorship in northern Italy.

  Hi Morten St George,
  
  The coned towers of Carcassone didn't exist until the 19th century. The architect Viollet-le-Duc took upon himself to improve the original design.
  
  

  Quote:Another of his most famous restorations, the medieval fortified town of Carcassonne, was similarly enhanced, gaining atop each of its many wall towers a set of pointed roofs that are actually more typical of northern France. Many of these reconstructions were controversial.

  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  About the Prophecies of Merlin, I am trying to understand how you link them to a selection of quatrains from the Centuries of Nostradamus. Can you explain?

  
  There is reason to believe that the cones were there in the early 13th century:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  I will admit,however, that Voillet's cones look a little nicer!
  
  The Morten St. George Theory maintains that the decoders of VMS wrote 902 Nostradamus prophecies to mask the 39 prophecies of Merlin that they extracted from the VMS and inserted into Nostradamus.
  
  They provided us with a guide, called the First Folio, for identifying Merlin's prophecies within the Prophecies of Nostradamus. I believe I have already provided a link to my research on this matter. The third page of that essay links it to the Prophetiae Merlini of Geoffrey of Monmouth.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 12-02-2018, 06:29 AM

  (09-02-2018, 11:39 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  Quote:Morten St George: Can anyone, other than me, envision that they are depicting a fortress on top of a mountain with vertical slopes?

  
  It's rather common for Voynich researchers to discuss various cliffs and mountains and escarpments in the VMS "map" page, so I would say that many people, other than you, envision mountains and fortresses and other topological details on this folio.

  
  I think I am also hallucinating on seeing a doorway on the opposite side of the fortress from the tower because, as far as I know, they usually built the towers on top of doorways to protect the entrance. Unless, maybe, it’s not a doorway but an escape hatch? By legend, some of the Cathars made a daring escape by climbing down the steep slopes.
  
  The solution to Montségur and other VMS mysteries is not going to found until we decode it. I found three dots over on the Counting Things thread, and another three dots over on the next page, so now my Rosetta Stone has increased in size from five to nine lines.
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Without insider knowledge or without a Rosetta Stone, it might not be possible to decode it if the encryption employs open-ended unknowns on each side of the equation: we do not know the numerical value of each glyph nor do we know the numerical value placed on each letter of the Latin alphabet. It might not be a = 1, b = 2 etc. As I mention in my article, another possibility would be numerical reduction to a Hebrew letter and then a system whereby each Hebrew letter is associated with a Latin letter without numerical equivalence.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 12-02-2018, 10:39 AM

  Quote:Morten St George: As I mention in my article, another possibility would be numerical reduction to a Hebrew letter and then a system whereby each Hebrew letter is associated with a Latin letter without numerical equivalence.

  
  Kabbalah theories have been discussed many times on these threads.
  
  The problem with reduction of a Hebrew letter to a Latin letter (with or without numerical equivalence) is that as soon as you start doing substitution, you run into the same problems of the structural oddities of the VMS text as you would if you started with letters rather than numbers.
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