Morten St. George > 06-12-2018, 10:55 PM
(06-12-2018, 05:56 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In support of their New World theory, Janick stated: '“Simply put, there is no way a manuscript written on vellum that contains a sunflower and an armadillo could have been written before 1492.”
(06-12-2018, 05:56 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Unfortunately, there is not much support for his idea that the plant and animal are unequivocably a sunflower and an armadillo. Most people familiar with armadillos think the animal looks more like a pangolin (plus there are other possible interpretations) and those who know plants know that sunflower is not the only possible identification.
-JKP- > 07-12-2018, 02:34 AM
(06-12-2018, 10:55 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It most certainly could have been written before 1492 if the vellum derives from bison, a close relative of domestic cattle. In fact, bison and cows can interbreed and produce healthy offspring that can also procreate. One must therefore conclude that bison and cows have similar proteins and, presumably, produce similar vellum.
The bison theory is supported by a VMS drawing that looks more like a native American teepee than anything else recognizable. Note that teepees and bison hunting go hand in hand: the bison were always on the move and the teepee provided mobile housing.
Meanwhile, as far as I know, your evidence for cow vellum consists of nothing more than a very dubious claim that 'mich' means 'milk'.
Morten Wrote:A serious problem with your pangolin theory is that this animal did not live in Europe (nor even close to Europe) where you are alleging the VMS was compiled. You can lend support to your theory by finding an entry for the pangolin in a medieval zoological catalog from either Europe or the Islamic world.
Morten St. George > 07-12-2018, 04:04 AM
(06-12-2018, 06:03 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you realize how truly weird this statement is? ALL letters are various other strokes turned or elongated or shortened. That's how letters evolve. That's how they are designed. The letter b is the letter d mirrored. An ell is i elongated without the dot. A medieval f is a medieval s with a crossbar. Noticing a similarity in shape means nothing. You have to DEMONSTRATE that there is a relationship between them that goes beyond the similarity in shape and you haven't done that. You've only pointed out the obvious.
Morten St. George > 07-12-2018, 04:43 AM
(07-12-2018, 02:34 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have never said anything about the VMS vellum. Only those with access to the manuscript (and pieces of the manuscript for testing) can speak intelligently about that.
(07-12-2018, 02:34 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.MORTEN, I DON'T HAVE A PANGOLIN THEORY. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.
-JKP- > 07-12-2018, 05:11 AM
(07-12-2018, 04:04 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(06-12-2018, 06:03 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you realize how truly weird this statement is? ALL letters are various other strokes turned or elongated or shortened. That's how letters evolve. That's how they are designed. The letter b is the letter d mirrored. An ell is i elongated without the dot. A medieval f is a medieval s with a crossbar. Noticing a similarity in shape means nothing. You have to DEMONSTRATE that there is a relationship between them that goes beyond the similarity in shape and you haven't done that. You've only pointed out the obvious.
JP, I was only trying to suggest that the symbol ½ might be a gate and not the Latin letter y inserted into Voynichese script. But you are certainly welcome to believe it's a y. It's theoretically possible for it to be a y.
Morten St. George > 07-12-2018, 08:12 AM
(07-12-2018, 05:11 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You must be scan-reading (or mixing up my posts with other people's posts) because I never said that was a "y". It's somewhat shaped like a "y" but that doesn't mean it's a "y" or even that it's a letter (it could be a symbol or a number).
(07-12-2018, 05:11 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
-JKP- > 07-12-2018, 09:40 AM
(07-12-2018, 08:12 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I believe Shakespeare used the word "tokens" to refer to undecipherable Greek words (which would make it appropriate for the VMS!) but I think I'll stick with "words" for words as it should be easier for most people to understand.
Koen G > 07-12-2018, 10:55 AM
Morten St. George > 07-12-2018, 02:56 PM
(07-12-2018, 09:40 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Misleading words can blind a person to what is really in front of them. There's no evidence that Voynichese is comprised of words.
Morten St. George > 07-12-2018, 03:33 PM
(07-12-2018, 10:55 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We know that they were known to 15th century Europeans.