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• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Koen G > 27-02-2018, 11:01 PM

  All in all we should be very careful with theories that are largely supported by an interpretation of the marginalia. Drawings an text on the last page are often pen trials, and the animal is much more likely to be a doodle than a depiction of the source of parchment.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 28-02-2018, 06:07 AM

  (27-02-2018, 08:00 PM)juliofo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not very pleased with this thread because, I also think, it is just noise. But, for many reasons, support those asking, please, do not delete it.
  BTW.- Thanks to all for the whole wiki. It is fantastic!!!

  
  Aspects of my theories may be proven wrong but I would be reluctant to refer to them as "noise." Unbeknownst to you, there is a whole universe of esoteric literature that has bearing on the VMS.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 28-02-2018, 06:43 AM

  (27-02-2018, 10:51 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why do you think it's a deer?
  
  It has short legs, a slightly poofy body and a long poofy tail. Based on how the other drawings are done throughout the manuscript, I think it's more likely a sheep/ram than a deer. In general the VMS animals are not well-drawn, but it still looks more like a sheep than a deer.
  
  The strange shape above it might be a pelt (pelts were frequently associated with astrological symbols) or a recently butchered animal (sometimes associated with sacrifices). It doesn't necessarily have to be evidence of tanning, it might be related to the subject matter that's on other pages already, especially considering there's a nymph near it that is similar to many of the other nymphs.

  
  Let's have fresh look at our animal:
  
  
  
  Take note of ears pointing up and back from behind the head, of a protruding rear end with swirling tail at end, of black coloring on lower legs. Compare with this picture of a swamp deer:
  
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  I think your "long poofy tail" is actually the deer's rear end poorly drawn: the VMS drawing does depict a tail: it's the tiny swirl at the end of the long poofy tail (rear end).
  
  Now let's have a look at some sheep images:
  
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  Note that the ears do not point up and back but outwards to the side, that its poofy tail is not long, that it is fatter than the VMS animal/deer, and that its legs are even shorter in comparison.
  
  Deer is the only parchment animal with ears up and back from behind the head and the only parchment animal that thrives in the swamps like those depicted in the biology section.
  
  Can someone please offer a second opinion on this: Does it look more like a deer or a sheep or something else?
  
  I agree that a  pelt (hide) could be depicted, but on the last page of the manuscript this is far more likely to allude to the source of parchment rather than a source of clothing for the manuscript's author who is depicted just below the deer while displaying a distinct dislike for clothing.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 28-02-2018, 07:04 AM

  (27-02-2018, 11:01 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.All in all we should be very careful with theories that are largely supported by an interpretation of the marginalia. Drawings an text on the last page are often pen trials, and the animal is much more likely to be a doodle than a depiction of the source of parchment.

  
  I was under the impression that experts had established that the drawings on the last page go with the manuscript but that the writing might be marginalia entered at a later date. Do you have expert opinion to the contrary?
  
  A signature page and a thank you note to the animal providing the parchment makes a lot of sense to me for the last page of the manuscript. It's fully credible that the author of the crazy VMS would do that.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 02-03-2018, 04:51 PM

  (27-02-2018, 10:51 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why do you think it's a deer?

  
  The world seems to have gone silent on the identity of the animal on page 116v, so I am assuming that my theory that it is a deer cannot be solidly refuted in favor of another animal.
  
  I view this as one more piece of evidence that the naked women in the biology section, rather than being the nymphs of Greek mythology drawn by sexually-frustrated Italian monks, represent real women living in real-world swamps. Though many of the swamp drawings can fairly depict either scenario, several of those drawings exceptionally favor the real world.
  
  Realistically, the swamps should have been the first or early place of arrival of the Cathars who escaped Montsegur in 1244 with whoever else decided to join them on the transatlantic crossing, and their botanical research would have been carried out during the following decades. The VMS, therefore, carbon-dated to between 1404 and 1438, cannot be the original redaction of that research. It has to be copy of the deerskin writings.
  
  I have sent an email inquiry regarding bison to the bioarchaeologist but I am not expecting a reply. If one comes,  I will let you know. Regardless, the cow protein tests have become irrelevant:
  
  1. Since bison (buffalo) and domestic cattle are closely-related bovidae capable of interbreeding, it is not credible that protein tests on 600 year-old scrapings could accurately and confidently distinguish between the two. A few years ago, I believe I read somewhere that protein analysis had trouble determining whether or not medieval Scottish manuscripts were written on parchment made from sheep.
  
  2. While the plant research could have been conducted and redacted on deerskin parchment over the course of many decades, the 15th century copy was done fairly quickly. Bison, which roamed around in large herds, would be the only realistic source of accumulating a large amount of parchment material quickly.
  
  3. Decades ago, prior to Yale ownership, experts on medieval manuscripts determined that the VMS was written on “some type of vellum,” which suggests that perhaps baby or fetal buffalo was used. Unlike cows in Europe, the large buffalo herbs could have provided this in sufficient quantity.
  
  Conclusion: native American converts to Catharism copied the deerskin writings onto buffalo parchment.
  
  This, of course, provides an alternative explanation for the absence of men in the swamp drawings: they went out to convert the native Americans to Catharism, leaving the women in camp. From all that I have read about the Cathars, it is hard to believe that they could have resisted an opportunity to make new converts.
  
  So, what's the purpose of the VMS? That's easy to explain: It's a missionary's handbook, for use in helping to convert more native Americans to Catharism. I'll give my reasons for thinking this in a follow-up post.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 08-03-2018, 03:48 AM

  (25-01-2018, 06:07 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm creating this thread for the discussion of the theory you present on your website, 

  
  I have added the following lines to my website:
  
  "The alligator gar is not the only New World animal to wear protective armor. On folio 80v, we find another one:
  
  
  
  It's an armadillo. According to Wikipedia, when threatened by a predator, armadillos would run into a thorny patch (are those protrusions underneath supposed to be thorns?) using its armor for protection, which could explain why its head is tucked safely down and under (mouth to the left, ears to the right) as it runs into the thorny patch.
  
  Compare the Voynich drawing with this public domain depiction of an armadillo:
  
  
  
  It might be a different species of armadillo (there were quite a few species including some without bands) but it is close enough to leave little doubt that this is the same animal.
  
  The armadillo lived in South and Central America, and in North America from Texas to Florida. In other words, it lived in or near the swamps and joins the alligators, the spotted jaguar, the alligator gar, and the water lily as pointing to the green-water swamps on the north side of the Gulf of Mexico."
  
  VMS links to the New World have found strong support from academics who fall into one of two categories:
  
  1. Academics who claim, with very impressive evidence, that the VMS is a forgery made by Voynich in the early 20th century, and
  
  2. Academics who claim that the VMS is genuine but that it was made in the 16th century rather than in the 15th century as widely believed.
  
  Since the contemporary technique of dating via radio-carbon could hardly be predicted, there would have been no motive to search for blank parchment hundreds of years old (as if it could be found!). Perhaps only inadvertently, both types of academics insinuate or imply that scientists from the U. of Arizona are guilty of fraud or grave error.
  
  It seems that those guys, just like you guys, have been influenced by the global media into believing that nothing ever happened in world history except what has been recorded in official sources. From what I have been reading, this influencing was initiated back in the 1960s to stifle public inquiries into the assassination of JFK and it has been continuing with rigor ever since.
  
  Consequently, since it has never been recorded that Europeans visited the tropical areas of the Americas during pre-Columbian times, the academics are forced into preposterous conclusions while you guys scramble to find an armored animal in Africa or Asia.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  -JKP- > 08-03-2018, 07:25 AM

  It could also be a pangolin or a badly drawn something else.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Koen G > 08-03-2018, 07:26 AM

  Google pangolin. Also, medievals had strange ways of drawing lizards, since not all of them were very familiar with the animal. Both of those have been proposed before. Also, armadillo's typical feature is that they have bands.
  
  Also, I'll have to give you a warning for flaming for calling us brainwashed and pathetic. Your new warning level means that your posts will have to be moderated before they appear on the forum.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 08-03-2018, 04:29 PM

  (08-03-2018, 07:26 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Google pangolin. Also, medievals had strange ways of drawing lizards, since not all of them were very familiar with the animal. Both of those have been proposed before. Also, armadillo's typical feature is that they have bands.
  
  Also, I'll have to give you a warning for flaming for calling us brainwashed and pathetic. Your new warning level means that your posts will have to be moderated before they appear on the forum.

  
  I have edited my last post to remove the words brainwashing and pathetic. It was not my intention to offend anyone in this group.

• RE: Morten St George Theory

  Morten St. George > 09-03-2018, 04:36 PM

  (08-03-2018, 07:25 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It could also be a pangolin or a badly drawn something else.

  
  It looks like a well-drawn armadillo to me and, now looking at other VMS websites, I find that I am not alone in that opinion.
  
  On the deer, it seems the copyist went too far out and down on the rear end, bringing it below the top of the hind legs, forcing a line back up, which then made it look awkward, so he or she colored it in to make it look like a fluffy tail. Recall that the VMS is a missionary's handbook. If you are going to show it to people to help convert them to your religion, the last thing you would want to display are imperfections.
  
  Regarding the pangolin:
  
  1. Did a European community reside in their vicinity in the 15th century? Unlike many places in the New World, people in the Old World knew how to write so such a thing should have been recorded.
  
  2. Are you able to find green-water swamps with white-flower water lilies in their vicinity?
  
  To resolve the true identity of this animal, it's helpful to look at the broader context.
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