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• Water, earth and air

• RE: Water, earth and air

  Zauriek > 02-02-2026, 05:55 AM

  This is referring to the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. drawings and the f85v, hope this is the right thread to post about them.
  

  (31-01-2026, 11:25 PM)Juan_Sali Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  In that ms found by @Juan_Sali, on the folio 60v bottom part, there is this picture showing star configurations of zodiac symbols. There are interesting coincidences to point up.
     
  The most solid is the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. one, but it has 3 variants depending on the angle. Does it represents 3 of them or just 1? no idea.
  Could the faces represent the moon or a planet in a zodiac position? Or Maybe they just represent the stars of the constellation? 
  With some luck this could be a potential clue, no? (in the remote and isolated case the titles represent zodiac names...)
  
  also, is that circular 3 area diagram, intended to be on all arrangements but never got draw? because they seem be in a circle too.
  

  (25-02-2018, 03:11 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  If true and correlated with the symbolism what it could mean? (why would it be drawn with a zodiac star constellation?)
  Is just an idea.

• RE: Water, earth and air

  R. Sale > 02-02-2026, 11:21 PM

  The figures with the lines and circles, and the VMs small faces are in another thread.
  
  The enumerated cosmic diagrams show how closely the two illustrations correspond in structure, though they differ significantly in appearance. The VMs artist did alright with the nebuly line on the right side, but in the lower left, the undulations are too sparse, so three extra undulations were squeezed into the upper left - in order to make the necessary 43.

• RE: Water, earth and air

  Zauriek > 04-02-2026, 08:52 AM

  (02-02-2026, 11:21 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The figures with the lines and circles, and the VMs small faces are in another thread.

  Thanks. Moved the question to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
  
  

  (02-02-2026, 11:21 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The enumerated cosmic diagrams show how closely the two illustrations correspond in structure, though they differ significantly in appearance. The VMs artist did alright with the nebuly line on the right side, but in the lower left, the undulations are too sparse, so three extra undulations were squeezed into the upper left - in order to make the necessary 43.

  
  But what about the center circle; It has to be a good match for its meaning, can this parallel be certain? It just looks very similar in design. Is it posible to find another circle with 3 areas with the same ratio? It has to be it, right? your finding is amazing to me

• RE: Water, earth and air

  Zauriek > 04-02-2026, 09:42 AM

  (21-01-2026, 09:34 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Nebuly for clouds; wavy for water; rayonny for fire.

  The Four Elements (Earth, Water, Air, Fire)
  by Dirc van Delft (Dutch, active 1365-1404)
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  was assuming the nebulae pattern in the vms was the air element... was that wrong?

• RE: Water, earth and air

  R. Sale > 04-02-2026, 07:20 PM

  Nice illustration. The depiction is elemental based on the four classical elements. So, clouds or air are pretty much the same thing. Very similar designs were also used in religious illustrations, with more emphasis on the cloudy interpretation.
  
  The VMs cosmos investigation is more than a decade old and originating in the central *inverted* T-O representation of the VMs Earth, in comparison with BNF Fr. 565 <as above> and also Harley 334 which has a couple cosmic representations, similar to the BNF - except for the cosmic boundary. Of course, when compared with the VMs, the differences in appearance are obvious. The switch from a pictorial representation to a linguistic presentation necessitates visual differences. The comparison is based on structure and the 43 undulations.
  
  The provenance of the two historical texts points to Paris. [BNF, Paris, c. 1410; Harley, Paris, 2nd Q. 15th] Both dates fit fairly well within the averaged C-14 parchment dating of the VMs (1404-1438). Otherwise, the unique structural simplicity [There are no planets.] sets these examples apart from other cosmic representations of the era.
  
  BNF was made for Jean, Duke of Berry, (d. 1416), then went to his daughter, Marie, Duchess of Auvergne (d. 1434). Harley - unknown.
  
  Additionally, Harley has the mermaid and her four companions and that's another tale.
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