Anton > 31-01-2018, 06:53 PM
Quote:That's a conclusion I don't necessarily follow, Anton. How many hands did Currier discern in the main text again? Some five or six? Which one does the Voynichese writing match? Why can't it have been written by a later owner who also mastered the script?
Morten St. George > 31-01-2018, 07:29 PM
(31-01-2018, 04:45 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's a conclusion I don't necessarily follow, Anton. How many hands did Currier discern in the main text again? Some five or six? Which one does the Voynichese writing match? Why can't it have been written by a later owner who also mastered the script?I gather you people are claiming that the VMS was written by an assembly line of monks and therefore the animal on the last page cannot be a marsh deer and the depicted gal cannot be the sole author of the manuscript.
Morten St. George > 31-01-2018, 07:49 PM
(31-01-2018, 06:43 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Per my theories, it is impossible for the marginalia on the last page to be in the handwriting style of the 15th century,
I think it's not a good idea to bend facts to fit a theory. I can assure you that JKP is right and the non-Voynich script on f. 116v is 15th c.
VViews > 31-01-2018, 08:27 PM
Morten St. George > 31-01-2018, 10:19 PM
(31-01-2018, 08:27 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Umm... no.
There are no flying geese around a tree on the first page of the Voynich Manuscript.
If you are referring to the big red weirdo characters, I don't see anything specific about them that would bring to mind geese rather than, say, seagulls or eagles. They also resemble a lot of other things, as you can see in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thread.
And they are not around a tree.
There is a plant on f1v, which looks nothing like your barnakle tree.
Also, you still have not addressed Koen Gh's post pointing out that your "cutout" looks nothing like a tapir.
I have highlighted the shape in pink below.
No one in their right mind can believe this looks anything like a tapir:
VViews > 31-01-2018, 11:22 PM
(31-01-2018, 10:19 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.forcing you declare that the plants are imaginary.
-JKP- > 01-02-2018, 12:29 AM
(31-01-2018, 10:19 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
But it seems you guys are unable to explain how experts have been able to associate Voynich plant drawings with 59 species of plants found in the New World, whereas, as far as I know, you cannot unambiguously associate anything with European plants, forcing you declare that the plants are imaginary...
Quote:Morton St George:
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Moreover, didn't you guys just verify in another thread that a Voynich plant depiction is actually a depiction of a real animal? Why is the animal real and all the plants fake?
Morten St. George > 01-02-2018, 10:39 PM
(01-02-2018, 12:29 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(31-01-2018, 10:19 PM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
But it seems you guys are unable to explain how experts have been able to associate Voynich plant drawings with 59 species of plants found in the New World, whereas, as far as I know, you cannot unambiguously associate anything with European plants, forcing you declare that the plants are imaginary...
Every New World plant has a plant in the Old World that looks similar, at least in terms of plants that look like those in the VMS.
Many New World plants are circumpolar (especially those that are northern or tropical) which means they are indigenous to both New and Old Worlds.
Even those that are not indigenous to both continents were naturalized in both places by humans when they crossed to the New World in boats and by the ice bridges. They brought plants with them from Polynesia and northeast Asia thousands of years ago, which were well established in the New World by the 15th century. The Vikings probably even brought some when they settled briefly in Labrador.
Many of those "59 species of plants found in the New World" are controversial plant IDs, ESPECIALLY considering there are plants that are morphologically similar in the Old World. The Talbert and Tucker IDs are based on an unproven THEORY that the VMS was created in the Old World.
Quote:Morton St George:
...
Moreover, didn't you guys just verify in another thread that a Voynich plant depiction is actually a depiction of a real animal? Why is the animal real and all the plants fake?
No one has said all the VMS animals are real or that all the VMS animals are fake. And no reputable researcher has said that all the plants are fake or all the plants are real either. Most researchers appear to agree that a number of plants may be real and some may not be, and a number of animals are real and some may not be. Even if we think an animal or plant is real or not, most of us remain open to other ideas.
I hope you aren't getting your ideas about what researchers think about the VMS from the press because they do a pretty bad job of summarizing people's ideas and sometimes they outright misrepresent it.
-JKP- > 02-02-2018, 02:11 AM
Quote:Morten St George:
Yale has been stifling research on the VMS from the very beginning. It took decades to get carbon dating and now I hear they are restricting access to the VMS even by acknowledged academics. Someone made a huge mistake bequeathing the VMS to that *snipped by admin* institution.
Morten St. George > 02-02-2018, 02:28 PM
(02-02-2018, 02:11 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:Morten St George:
Yale has been stifling research on the VMS from the very beginning. It took decades to get carbon dating and now I hear they are restricting access to the VMS even by acknowledged academics. Someone made a huge mistake bequeathing the VMS to that *snipped by admin* institution.
You make it sound like they have some obligation to share their property. It belongs to them, not to us. The U.S. is not a communist country. Yale is not a public institution. It's a private university.
I am grateful to them for improving the scans. When I started researching the VMS, I was working from low-res black-and-white photocopy scans. They gave us better ones. They have also produced a very nice facsimile.
I don't blame them for limiting access. It's a fragile 600-year-old artifact.