Koen G > 20-04-2017, 06:52 PM
MarcoP > 20-04-2017, 07:39 PM
Koen G > 20-04-2017, 07:50 PM
MarcoP > 20-04-2017, 08:12 PM
(20-04-2017, 07:50 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ahh right, I should have looked for the meaning of bacchas, thanks. I also found the "juice" parts rather unclear.
Some herbals seem to draw a snake next to the plant, would it be correct to read this as a generic marker of "used against poisonous bites"? Some kind of insect in this case.
(20-04-2017, 07:50 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What I find interesting to witness here first hand is how image and text seem to follow a separate line of development.
(20-04-2017, 07:50 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The fact that the VM does not draw the leaves of the vine but only of the host is something that remains hard to explain. If all associated remedies had been about the berries this would have been easy. But the leaves are such in important omission that we can't even tell whether this is ivy to begin with... Also within the plant corpus of the Voynich itself it's a strange thing that only the fruits of a plant are drawn.
Koen G > 20-04-2017, 08:38 PM
-JKP- > 20-04-2017, 10:16 PM
(20-04-2017, 07:50 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
The fact that the VM does not draw the leaves of the vine but only of the host is something that remains hard to explain. If all associated remedies had been about the berries this would have been easy. But the leaves are such in important omission that we can't even tell whether this is ivy to begin with... Also within the plant corpus of the Voynich itself it's a strange thing that only the fruits of a plant are drawn.
Koen G > 20-04-2017, 10:35 PM
-JKP- > 21-04-2017, 03:12 AM
(20-04-2017, 10:35 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
If this is one of the Indian plants, of which I believe there are a few, then it might be an important one for trade. For example, pepper was grown on trees (a commenter on Nick's site once proposed this could be pepper, can't recall his name at the moment). Pepper was, and still is, encouraged to climb on other trees and was also found like that in the wild. Not in the ivy-parasite way but in the grape-support way. If it's pepper though, or anything similar, I see no way to confirm it until we can read the text, since we've only got the berries...
MarcoP > 21-04-2017, 07:26 AM
(20-04-2017, 10:35 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP: yes, but then again I have the impression that if there's one thing the VM finds important, it's the leaves. I just don't see why exactly the berries of ivy would be singled out. Even in images of grape plants, the leaves would usually be featured, whether it be in antiquity or the middle ages, in decorations or otherwise.
If this is one of the Indian plants, of which I believe there are a few, then it might be an important one for trade. For example, pepper was grown on trees (a commenter on Nick's site once proposed this could be pepper, can't recall his name at the moment). Pepper was, and still is, encouraged to climb on other trees and was also found like that in the wild. Not in the ivy-parasite way but in the grape-support way. If it's pepper though, or anything similar, I see no way to confirm it until we can read the text, since we've only got the berries...
(20-04-2017, 10:35 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Anyway, the reasoning would be then that whoever first composed this drawing used the "oak is host tree"-trope as a template and adapted it to add the other vine. This of course assumes that the oak pairing was present in the now lost sources that may have been common to the Italian herbals and the VM alike.
Koen G > 21-04-2017, 08:46 AM
Quote:While the Voynich MS illustration clearly isn't a copy of the Paris MS, it is also inconceivable that it was not in some way inspired by this or a similar illustration in another MS.