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Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
- Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
R. Sale > 10-11-2024, 09:00 PM
And then there's the question of language. Is it Latin or Greek, Arabic or Croatian?
@Barbrey
I like what you said here: "Alchemy started with dyeing so it might mean just that. No idea what the phrase would mean, sounds like more code. It’s never nonsense, though, just code. 50% of it is in code, even when the writer says they’ll explain it all in simple terms! Never believe them!"
Perhaps you could explain more about "It's never nonsense,". Of course they had processes for dyeing, tanning, metallurgy, etc. They knew how, but they didn't know why. Any explanation of alchemical work, based on the classical four elements theory was derived from a paradigm that is innately flawed and fictional. What results is utter nonsense. It's actually a code for nonsense. To say nothing about the toxicity of mercuric vapor to those cooking up that stuff. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Ruby Novacna > 10-11-2024, 11:33 PM
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 11-11-2024, 12:52 AM
(10-11-2024, 09:00 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And then there's the question of language. Is it Latin or Greek, Arabic or Croatian?
@Barbrey
I like what you said here: "Alchemy started with dyeing so it might mean just that. No idea what the phrase would mean, sounds like more code. It’s never nonsense, though, just code. 50% of it is in code, even when the writer says they’ll explain it all in simple terms! Never believe them!"
Perhaps you could explain more about "It's never nonsense,". Of course they had processes for dyeing, tanning, metallurgy, etc. They knew how, but they didn't know why. Any explanation of alchemical work, based on the classical four elements theory was derived from a paradigm that is innately flawed and fictional. What results is utter nonsense. It's actually a code for nonsense. To say nothing about the toxicity of mercuric vapor to those cooking up that stuff.
The philosopher’s stone was nonsense, though based on what alchemists thought were observable changes in metals, as well as Aristotlean theory. Alchemists were working with a theory, charlatans were pretending to have proved it.
You should try reading Roger Bacon’s Maius Opus. It’s full of interesting ideas on all sorts of topics so it’s a good read. As per alchemy, he believes there are charlatans, but doesn’t dismiss it as a possibility that metals can be turned to gold. What I like is when he talks about an elixir of life. He sounds eminently reasonable and scientific, does not believe it can confer immortality, then without switching tone says it is eminently possible it can create extremely long life spans. His evidence? The incredibly long lives of the patriarchs in the Bible. Methuselah lived 900 years, after all.
I just thought it a wonderful example of the medieval mindset. Science and religion are so entangled in a way we don’t see today.
What I was trying to say is that it operates like astrology, which I believe is just as nonsensical as alchemy in its basic premises. But both are closed systems, once you believe the basic premise, all the details, the math, the calculations start supporting each other so a tentative investigator might be persuaded. Alchemy’s decknamens and imagery, and frustrating descriptions make it sound nonsensical, but behind it are observable experiments and logic, usually eminently reasonable, until bumping heads with the faulty theory that began it.
But a few modern scholars will better persuade you than me. Try Jennifer Rampling, Lawrence Principe, Wayne Newman. It’s become a rising field in scholarship precisely because it’s no longer considered “all nonsense”.
@Ruby is quite right. I believe it’s Wayne Newman who said an enormous amount of time was spent on ensuring the alchemist was protected from the poisonous vapours and substances they had to deal with. A hermetic seal was one of those ways. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 11-11-2024, 01:23 AM
You know, I really just want one good modern textbook, written in English, that explains exactly the “usual” scientific practice behind the four stages, and a glossary of alchemical terms with their decknamens and imagery. I want to be more systematic about researching this in a way that might provide illumination on the VMs illustrations. I have been disappointed in a few promising ones that I’ve read. They tend to either deal with just a few recipes or veer off into Jung or the esoteric. If anyone knows of a promising one, let me know; otherwise I’m just going to write to one or more of these scholars and ask their opinion on a good text.
One piece of good news: remember I said re the Nigrido page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that Koen had found a compelling comparable illustration of the dead nymph with ring/mirror, identified as the “Whore of Babylon”, which I then said would be a perfect symbol of putrefaction? This same figure is the stinky black mass on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the rainbow sub-stage? I just found one of the decknamens for the mass: the “whore”. Koen for the win as usual! -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 11-11-2024, 02:32 PM
The problem is that almost anything obscure and mysterious can be (and was) linked to alchemy: Catholic religion, Greco-Roman mythology, architecture, psychology...
Alchemy is the biggest part of the "book of secrets" literature that pretended to reveal amazing occult knowledge. At the time the Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit, Aurora consurgens and VMs were written, most of the popular, much copied books (outside of the small minority of little studied, mostly forgotten texts written by practicing alchemists) were written by hacks who reused previous texts, interpolated bits and pieces found in older manuscripts, made up and rewrote parts without any respect for attribution to the original authors and what they meant. The extent of successive additions and modifications can be seen when comparing manuscripts, making authorship basically meaningless. A short text titled De cellidonia in a 14th century manuscript, De herba incognita in a 15th century manuscript, was later re-purposed as an alchemical text and ended up in a 16th century printed edition as a letter written by Arnaldus de Villa Nova about distilled human blood. Conversely, some alchemical texts mention "herba adrop": the bridges between herbalism and alchemy are numerous, either metaphorical or literal. Under the disguise of herbalism, alchemy and medicine the same basic message was being conveyed: that secret knowledge existed, that could be rediscovered. The more obscure and mysterious the better, because imagination is best stimulated by symbols, enigmas and parables: even the most credulous had trouble believing silly practical recipes found in pseudo-Albertus Magnus Grand Albert, a.k.a. Liber secretorum Alberti Magni de virtutibus herbarum, lapidum et animalium quorundam (The book of secrets of Albert the Great on the virtues of herbs, stones and certain animals). So the VMs can be seen as the ultimate evolution in the "book of secrets" genre, removing the inconvenient revelation of unworkable principles of natural philosophy (theorica) and recipes (practica) altogether, keeping only the distilled essence of mystery. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
bi3mw > 11-11-2024, 03:10 PM
(11-11-2024, 01:23 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You know, I really just want one good modern textbook, written in English, that explains exactly the “usual” scientific practice behind the four stages, and a glossary of alchemical terms with their decknamens and imagery. I want to be more systematic about researching this in a way that might provide illumination on the VMs illustrations. I have been disappointed in a few promising ones that I’ve read.
Although not directly about the four stages, I can recommend the following work for a general introduction to alchemical imagery and a corresponding, good word index. A whole chapter is devoted to the Opus Magnum. In any case, the German-language paperback edition helped me to discover the one or other "common thread" in the illustrations ( as far as that is possible in alchemy ). The word index is, as I said, carefully done and usually leads to corresponding illustrations.
Alexander Roob
Alchemy & Mysticism
English edition
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 11-11-2024, 03:36 PM
(11-11-2024, 03:10 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(11-11-2024, 01:23 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You know, I really just want one good modern textbook, written in English, that explains exactly the “usual” scientific practice behind the four stages, and a glossary of alchemical terms with their decknamens and imagery. I want to be more systematic about researching this in a way that might provide illumination on the VMs illustrations. I have been disappointed in a few promising ones that I’ve read.
Although not directly about the four stages, I can recommend the following work for a general introduction to alchemical imagery and a corresponding, good word index. A whole chapter is devoted to the Opus Magnum. In any case, the German-language paperback edition helped me to discover the one or other "common thread" in the illustrations ( as far as that is possible in alchemy ). The word index is, as I said, carefully done and usually leads to corresponding illustrations.
Alexander Roob
Alchemy & Mysticism
English edition
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 11-11-2024, 03:39 PM
What’s the thread, Matthias? And thanks for the book recommendation. I’m reading one right now myself, called Spyragics (sp?) but doesn’t have the Magnum Opus per se. Still, I’ve learned quite a lot from it already. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 11-11-2024, 04:04 PM
(11-11-2024, 02:32 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The problem is that almost anything obscure and mysterious can be (and was) interpreted as alchemical: Catholic religion, Greco-Roman mythology, architecture...
Alchemy is the biggest part of the "book of secrets" literature that pretended to reveal amazing occult knowledge. At the time the Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit, Aurora consurgens and VMs were written, most of the popular, much copied books (outside of the small minority of little studied, mostly forgotten texts written by practicing alchemists) were written by hacks who reused previous texts, interpolated bits and pieces found in older manuscripts, made up and rewrote parts without any respect for attribution to the original authors and what they meant. The extent of successive additions and modifications can be seen when comparing manuscripts, making authorship basically meaningless. A short text titled De cellidonia in a 14th century manuscript, De herba incognita in a 15th century manuscript, was later re-purposed as an alchemical text and ended up in a 16th century printed edition as a letter written by Arnaldus de Villa Nova about distilled human blood. Conversely, some alchemical texts mention "herba adrop": the bridges between herbalism and alchemy are numerous, either metaphorical or literal. Under the disguise of herbalism, alchemy and medicine the same basic message was being conveyed: that secret knowledge existed, that could be rediscovered. The more obscure and mysterious the better, because imagination is best stimulated by symbols, enigmas and parables: even the most credulous had trouble believing silly practical recipes found in pseudo-Albertus Magnus Grand Albert, a.k.a. Liber secretorum Alberti Magni de virtutibus herbarum, lapidum et animalium quorundam (The book of secrets of Albert the Great on the virtues of herbs, stones and certain animals). So the VMs can be seen as the ultimate evolution in the "book of secrets" genre, removing the inconvenient revelation of unworkable principles of natural philosophy (theorica) and recipes (practica) altogether, keeping only the distilled essence of mystery.
You are quite right, nablator, and I like that last line! The images in the book are cryptograms themselves; no wonder so many find either no meaning or all meanings in them. And even if we find something at surface, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t included to hide even more riddles, or possible nonsense. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
bi3mw > 11-11-2024, 05:50 PM
(11-11-2024, 03:39 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What’s the thread, Matthias?
I'm not sure what you mean. First of all, in the absence of readable text in the VMS, we can only work through the illustrations. For me it was and is an essential endeavor to find my way through the sheer mass of alchemical illustrations as best I can. Every transfer to parts of the VMS presupposes that motifs of alchemical imagery are taken up and interpreted. Here it is good to have a work at hand that presents and explains illustrations over time and also emphasizes recurring "traditions" (please do not take this too literally!).
For example, one can try to interpret Quire 13 as a coherent, alchemical process. There are illustrations that immediately catch the eye. Here is an example:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Then there are other illustrations that obviously show how substances are separated (without clear assignment):
Here the comparison to a "normal" representation in the "Liber de secretis naturae seu de quinta essentia" (1498, Pseudo-Lull):
So the work consists of assembling such fragments into an overall picture (step by step). That would be my theme, so to speak. Admittedly, I am still far away from a presentable result.