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Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
- Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
R. Sale > 07-11-2024, 08:57 PM
Back to the origins of VMs Melusine. It may be worth noting that this is not the generally more favored, flying, dragon-like version of mythical Melusine of Lusignan. The VMs artist has instead presented a drawing of the aquatic, mermaid-like Melusine of Luxembourg.
While Duke Jean de Berry (VMs cosmic similarities with BNF Fr. 565) has several connections with the Melusine of Lusignan, he and his siblings were the children of Bonne of Luxembourg and laid claim to "Melusine" as an ancestral figure.
Other potentially relevant connections to the Melusine of Luxembourg might include Sigismund of Luxembourg, the Holy Roman Emperor and Elizabeth of Görlitz (d.1451), Duchess of Luxembourg, for a time.
It certainly seems reasonable that an appropriate interpretation of the VMs Melusine illustration would be more likely in certain medieval circles than - say - the first century of modern VMs investigations.
An interesting bit on Emperor Sigismund, regarding alchemy, and his wife, Barbara of Cilli / Celje, and her alchemist Johann von Laaz, posted by Searcher.
Search: Laaz
It's the first posting.
It seems fairly obvious to me that this so-called transformation of metals is basically attempted counterfeiting - the creation of metallic items that look like silver and gold and passing them off as genuine. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 07-11-2024, 09:01 PM
The article is called “Mercury and Sulphur Among the High Medieval Alchemists” and is indeed by William R. Newman. It’s published in a bunch of journals I don’t have access to, but as I did read it, there must be a free version somewhere. I think more of you have access to journals than I do. My own Alma mater lets me take out books but doesn’t give alumni journal access, and the small college where I work just doesn’t have access to many online journals. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 07-11-2024, 09:39 PM
(07-11-2024, 08:57 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Back to the origins of VMs Melusine. It may be worth noting that this is not the generally more favored, flying, dragon-like version of mythical Melusine of Lusignan. The VMs artist has instead presented a drawing of the aquatic, mermaid-like Melusine of Luxembourg.
While Duke Jean de Berry (VMs cosmic similarities with BNF Fr. 565) has several connections with the Melusine of Lusignan, he and his siblings were the children of Bonne of Luxembourg and laid claim to "Melusine" as an ancestral figure.
Other potentially relevant connections to the Melusine of Luxembourg might include Sigismund of Luxembourg, the Holy Roman Emperor and Elizabeth of Görlitz (d.1451), Duchess of Luxembourg, for a time.
It certainly seems reasonable that an appropriate interpretation of the VMs Melusine illustration would be more likely in certain medieval circles than - say - the first century of modern VMs investigations.
An interesting bit on Emperor Sigismund, regarding alchemy, and his wife, Barbara of Cilli / Celje, and her alchemist Johann von Laaz, posted by Searcher.
Search: Laaz
It's the first posting.
It seems fairly obvious to me that this so-called transformation of metals is basically attempted counterfeiting - the creation of metallic items that look like silver and gold and passing them off as genuine.
Not gainsaying your last point, R. Sale, the field was full of charlatans from the beginning. But there were very many that did believe in it, Roger Bacon annd Isaac Newton among them. I do know about Barbara of Cilli, even to the point of looking up her coat of arms, you’ll be interested to hear! I’d be very interested in further info, not about her experiment, but about all of the amateur and serious alchemists in her circle and beyond at that time period. I’ve failed to turn up much information except for the fact of their existence. John the Alchemist is particularly intriguing, supposed first patron of the writer of The Book of the Holy Trinity.
I fail to understand your point regarding the first century of VMs research. I’ve known about the Melusine and her mythical ancestry to certain French dynasties for thirty years. I believe you are more interested in dating the VMs and tying it to certain time periods and locations, which is a viable endeavour and line of inquiry. I’m more interested in her symbolism at that time period, and how it might relate to alchemy and the narratives of the balneological section, which is also a viable line of inquiry. So each to their own: maybe we’ll find our investigations meet somewhere in the middle. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 07-11-2024, 10:06 PM
(07-11-2024, 07:00 PM)zamolxe Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What is intriguing is that the alchemists were trying to transform lead in gold.
Not only. Pseudo-Geber, in the Summa perfectionis, even warns against the foolish who said that lead is in its nature much like gold, before describing the process of turning it into silver.
The Adept could "... transmute into perfect Gold and Silver all the imperfect Metals that are in the whole World; secondly, he may by this Art make precious Stones and Gems, such as cannot be paralelled in Nature, for goodness and greatness. Thirdly and Lastly, he hath a Medicine Universal, both for prolonging Life, and Curing of all Diseases ..." SECRETS Reveal'd: OR, An OPEN ENTRANCE TO THE Shut-Palace of the KING (1645).
When the focus shifted to antimony, because of its similarity to lead, most of the older recipes could be recycled. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
R. Sale > 08-11-2024, 02:11 AM
@Barbrey
The knowledge of historical detail is something you either have or you don't. The different versions of Melusine were connected to various royal houses. My knowledge of early 15th century history comes mainly from VMs research.
The other side of the matter is when was the illustration of the VMs mermaid first connected to the story of mythical Melusine? The ninja investigation of the VMs mermaid, which led to the Melusine interpretation, made no mention of any prior connections with her mythology in earlier VMs research, though perhaps that was an oversight. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 08-11-2024, 06:54 AM
(08-11-2024, 02:11 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Barbrey
The knowledge of historical detail is something you either have or you don't. The different versions of Melusine were connected to various royal houses. My knowledge of early 15th century history comes mainly from VMs research.
The other side of the matter is when was the illustration of the VMs mermaid first connected to the story of mythical Melusine? The ninja investigation of the VMs mermaid, which led to the Melusine interpretation, made no mention of any prior connections with her mythology in earlier VMs research, though perhaps that was an oversight.
Perhaps, but from what I’ve read on the ninja, there are still doubts she is a Melusine at all. And I’m not sure it matters to my alchemical interpretation. So what exactly is the issue?
Is this a proprietary objection because perhaps you first identified her as a Melusine on a prior VMs thread? By all means, take credit for that if so! I’ll be sure to mention it if I ever write an essay. Wouldn’t want to step on toes! -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
bi3mw > 09-11-2024, 12:17 PM
It should also be noted that the alchemical process can be divided into different stages. For example, there is a division into 4, 7 or 12 stages. In general, it can be said that the process began with fewer stages and then more and more stages were added as alchemy developed.
So if (parts of) Quire 13 in the VMS are to be interpreted as an alchemical process, there is no getting around the question of which classification should be taken as a basis.
The Four Stages:
The origin of these four phases can be traced at least as far back as the first century. Zosimus of Panopolis wrote that it was known to Mary the Jewess.
1.) Nigredo (Blackening or Melanosis):
This initial stage involves decomposition and reduction.
2.) Albedo (Whitening or Leucosis):
Following Nigredo, Albedo represents purification.
3.) Citrinitas ( (Yellowing or Xanthosis):
Citrinitas serves as the transition between the purification of Albedo and the final perfection of Rubedo.
This phase represents the transmutation of silver into gold.
4.) Rubedo (Reddening, Purpling, or Iosis):
The final stage, Rubedo, represents the completion of the alchemical process. Here, the true transformation occurs,
and the opposites unified in Citrinitas achieve a harmonious balance. Rubedo signifies the full realization of the
Magnum Opus, culminating in the creation of the rebis.
Colors of the magnum opus seen on the breastplate of a figure from Splendor Solis:
The seven stages ( Probably the most widely used method ):
1.) Calcination
Heating a substance over a flame until it turns to ashes.
2.) Dissolution
Dissolving ashes of substances into water.
3.) Separation
Isolating and filtering the products of dissolution.
4.) Conjunction
Form a new substance from the separated elements you choose to keep.
5.) Fermentation
Induce chemical breakdown of substance with bacteria or other micro-organisms.
6.) Distillation
Boil and condense solution to increase purity.
7.) Coagulation
Transformation to a solid state.
Michelspacher, Steffan, Cabala, Augsburg 1616 ( deviating phases )
These are the twelve stages ( in Ripley ):
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The First Gate - Calcination
The Second Gate - Solution
The Third Gate - Separation
The Fourth Gate - Conjunction
The Fifth Gate - Putrefaction
The Sixth Gate - Congelation
The Seventh Gate - Cibation
The Eighth Gate - Sublimation
The Ninth Gate - Fermentation
The Tenth Gate - Exaltation
The Eleventh Gate - Multiplication
The Twelfth Gate - Projection
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 09-11-2024, 06:17 PM
(09-11-2024, 12:17 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It should also be noted that the alchemical process can be divided into different stages. For example, there is a division into 4, 7 or 12 stages.
That is when stages are mentioned at all. In most books the process is not so neatly organized.
George Ripley's 'Twelve Gates' are based on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.'s Scala Philosophorum it seems. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. See also: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 09-11-2024, 07:22 PM
(09-11-2024, 06:17 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(09-11-2024, 12:17 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It should also be noted that the alchemical process can be divided into different stages. For example, there is a division into 4, 7 or 12 stages.
That is when stages are mentioned at all. In most books the process is not so neatly organized. George Ripley's 'Twelve Gates' are based on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.'s Scala Philosophorum it seems. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Yes, there was no true system - each alchemist had his/her own steps. When you try to match the steps to the four stages, scholars just say it would vary. What does hold true in alchemical imagery is the four stages, including rainbow/peacock sub-stage. It will sometimes be missing the citrinadas stage as time went on, but for the most part the stages had sticking power.
One thing that is very much missing from the balneoligical pages in general is heat or heat sources. Alchemists are associated with fire for a reason. At almost every stage they were heating or boiling or distilling their substances, over and over and over again. So either there’s no alchemy or heating/fire is hidden for a reason, represented by pipes as processes. The problem here is the hermetic secrecy of alchemists, who talked about “secret” fire, and if you look at emblem imagery, none of the alchemists use much explicit imagery of fire. So for me, the absence of it could as well prove alchemy’s existence as non-existence. I often have imagined all the pipes coming out of the central sphere of the rosette pages representing stove pipes from all the secret fires of alchemists. Fanciful, but as fair a guess as any other I’ve read. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
bi3mw > 09-11-2024, 07:51 PM
Thank you @Nablator for the introduction of Guy de Montanor ( Guido di Montanor )
Quote:Guido de Montanor, in his Scala Philosophorum, which is a real stair of transmutations instead of the classic seven operations stairs, uses a more ancient list.
In his Bibliotheca Chemica, Ferguson is a little source of info on this author: “Guido de Montanor, or Montano, or Guido Magnus de Monte, but not Guido de Monte was a Frenchmen quoted by Ripley and quoting in his turn Roger Bacon. Hence he can be attributed to a period between those”.
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Scala Philosophorum
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