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Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
- Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Ruby Novacna > 04-11-2024, 08:15 AM
(04-11-2024, 12:35 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The fish is one of those bodies, but a different type of body to signify one of the three most common substances in alchemy: salt. Salt symbolizes the body in alchemy. ...
My knowledge of alchemy is limited to Wikipedia, unfortunately. Hence my question: was alchemical salt known in the 15th century? -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 04-11-2024, 08:40 AM
(04-11-2024, 08:15 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(04-11-2024, 12:35 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The fish is one of those bodies, but a different type of body to signify one of the three most common substances in alchemy: salt. Salt symbolizes the body in alchemy. ...
My knowledge of alchemy is limited to Wikipedia, unfortunately. Hence my question: was alchemical salt known in the 15th century?
Yes, it was Ruby, but alchemy was based on the Arabic dual model of sulphur-mercury even though salt and salt-as-body had a long history with alchemy. Moreover, there are different alchemical salts. Usually, in the process I’m describing, the salt itself was calcinated and went through different alchemical processes to be added back in at different stages, but the imagery doesn’t always show this. It was often called feces or dung! My understanding is that even though salt was used, it doesn’t become an “official” third for a triumvirate of sulphur-mercury-salt until Paracelsus.
As for sources, my answer is “I’ll take what I can get. ”. I wish there was one page or source that described all of the substances and processes in that time period, but the sources I read always say it varied, or jump into the esoteric. So Wikipedia is just fine. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 04-11-2024, 09:53 AM
(04-11-2024, 08:15 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My knowledge of alchemy is limited to Wikipedia, unfortunately. Hence my question: was alchemical salt known in the 15th century?
If by "alchemical salt" you mean a Salt that is a principle and not a salt, like Sulphur is not sulphur and Mercury is not mercury, no.
Common salt ("sal communi") yes, as an ingredient in various operations. For example at the last step of the recipe in the Verbum abbreviatum de leone viridi, it is used to purify Mercury. Several salts are mentioned in pseudo-Albertus magnus Compositum de Compositis. With the widespread pseudo-epigraphy in alchemy the attribution to famous authors is always suspect but manuscripts of the 15th century exist for these two works.
In Arabic alchemy, the basis of all Latin alchemy, ammonium chloride ("sal armoniacus") is preferred:
- In Rasis' treatise De aluminibus et salibus (12th century) it is the "best salt",
- It is mentioned 5 times in pseudo-Geber's Summa Perfectionis (13th century). -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Ruby Novacna > 04-11-2024, 10:15 AM
(04-11-2024, 09:53 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If by "alchemical salt" you mean a Salt that is a principle and not a salt, like Sulphur is not sulphur and Mercury is not mercury, no.
I added the word "alchemical" to distinguish it, precisely, from common salt. Perhaps this "salt" existed under another name? -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 04-11-2024, 10:24 AM
I know that was true for metals, but I wonder if so for elixirs? Would it be poisonous if ingested? The few mentions I’ve seen suggest the salt used was brine-derived, so I wonder if when the focus shifted to elixirs in the VMS time period if they were still using ammonium chloride? I honestly don’t know. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 04-11-2024, 10:34 AM
(04-11-2024, 10:24 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I know that was true for metals, but I wonder if so for elixirs? Would it be poisonous if ingested? The few mentions I’ve seen suggest the salt used was brine-derived, so I wonder if when the focus shifted to elixirs in the VMS time period if they were still using ammonium chloride? I honestly don’t know.
I just found one text (manuscripts exist from the 14th-16th century) by pseudo-Arnaldus de Villa Nova De secretis naturae or De lapide philosophorum written in the style of ancient hermetic dialogs where "sal armoniacus" is elevated to the rank of first "spirit" (whatever that means): "quatuor sunt spiritus: sal armoniacus, sulphur, arsenicum, argentum vivum".
I am looking for a replacement for common salt, preferably non-poisonous.
True personal story: since last June I have developed an intolerance to common salt, as if it suddenly became "poisonous if ingested", causing severe dehydration even at low doses. 
Maybe I should try a little potassium chloride, though I don't need the effect of reduced blood pressure. I'll ask my doctor. 
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RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 04-11-2024, 10:47 AM
(04-11-2024, 10:15 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(04-11-2024, 09:53 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If by "alchemical salt" you mean a Salt that is a principle and not a salt, like Sulphur is not sulphur and Mercury is not mercury, no.
I added the word "alchemical" to distinguish it, precisely, from common salt. Perhaps this "salt" existed under another name?
Hmm, it would help if you gave the context - where did you read about alchemical salt? Because as a principle it means a number of things and can even stand in for processes, such as contraction or crystallization. It was sometimes substituted for the element of “earth” itself. But I think, if I remember correctly, you might be referring to the “salt of Mercury”, which is the form Mercury took before being forced into the chemical marriage with the “oil of Sulphur”. I’ll have to check that. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Ruby Novacna > 04-11-2024, 11:05 AM
(04-11-2024, 10:34 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.True personal story: since last June I have developed an intolerance to common salt, as if it suddenly became "poisonous if ingested", causing severe dehydration even at low doses.
Since June, when the heat period has passed? You should not ignore this kind of symptoms, look for the cause, help your body to find harmony again. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
Barbrey > 04-11-2024, 11:14 AM
(04-11-2024, 10:34 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(04-11-2024, 10:24 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I know that was true for metals, but I wonder if so for elixirs? Would it be poisonous if ingested? The few mentions I’ve seen suggest the salt used was brine-derived, so I wonder if when the focus shifted to elixirs in the VMS time period if they were still using ammonium chloride? I honestly don’t know.
I just found one text (manuscripts exist from the 14th-16th century) by pseudo-Arnaldus de Villa Nova De secretis naturae or De lapide philosophorum written in the style of ancient hermetic dialogs where "sal armoniacus" is elevated to the rank of first "spirit" (whatever that means): "quatuor sunt spiritus: sal armoniacus, sulphur, arsenicum, argentum vivum".
I am looking for a replacement for common salt, preferably non-poisonous. True personal story: since last June I have developed an intolerance to common salt, as if it suddenly became "poisonous if ingested", causing severe dehydration even at low doses. Maybe I should try a little potassium chloride, though I don't need the effect of reduced blood pressure. I'll ask my doctor.
I’m so sorry to hear that, it sounds awful. And the body needs some amount of salt, so I can’t think how you’d get around that.
He means “essence” I think. Spirits were sometimes thought of as “essences” in the Aristotlean sense. But don’t get me started on “spirit” and the Corpus Hermeticum. I think it took me about a month just to vaguely figure out the difference between soul and spirit. -
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS
nablator > 04-11-2024, 11:22 AM
(04-11-2024, 11:14 AM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I’m so sorry to hear that, it sounds awful. And the body needs some amount of salt, so I can’t think how you’d get around that.
I seem to be able to survive on little salt (no idea how much that is per day, there is a little salt in almost everything, and a lot in processed food as a taste enhancer) and sleep better after 4 months of terrible dehydration forcing me to drink at least every two hours: 5 liters per day this summer, now only 3, and feeling much better since I reduced salt consumption.