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The claimed Voynich page
- The claimed Voynich page
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
eggyk > 13-03-2026, 04:01 PM
(16-09-2017, 10:03 PM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have aquired another piece of the Voynich puzzle (not with this parchment) in 2015 from an antiquarian bookseller in Florence, the 1908 catalogue of W. M. Voynich of his library in Florence. Thank to this book catalogue there is a connection between father J. Strickland and Voynich, we must think that the priest have contacted the book seller because it owned a famous library in Italy (ex Franceschini library in Florence).
Im confused. It was said that this book catalogue was acquired seperately from the copy page parchment, but it is an exact match with the back of the copy. Every line, crease, and mark is the same. I've roughly morphed the booklet from the laying down position, and you can see that it's the same piece of paper.
Edit: Not an actual image, didn't see the post in italian
(13-03-2026, 03:04 PM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Spero che questo sia d'aiuto. Allego immagini ad alta risoluzione (600 DPI) della mia pergamena e un dettaglio del sigillo di cera.
Google Translate Wrote:I hope this helps. I've attached high-resolution (600 DPI) images of my parchment and a detail of the wax seal.
I very much appreciate the high resolution scans of both sides of the copy, and really appreciate the measurement tools being added! -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
Koen G > 13-03-2026, 04:06 PM
eggyk, thank you for providing an illustration of why it is important to post in English, so people know I'm not just nagging for no reason
The catalogue and the image with two seals are completely separate topics. Fabrizio wrote (in Italian):
"That image was created in 2015 by my cousin Fabio Dal Molin, a well-known 3D image designer.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
He made it at my request, using photographs of the seal that was to be reconstructed in order to simulate the “litterae clausae” as an illustrative example, based on the instructions of the Italian State Archives. It was a 3D simulation of what the booklet might have looked like." -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
eggyk > 13-03-2026, 04:11 PM
(13-03-2026, 04:06 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.eggyk, thank you for providing an illustration of why it is important to post in English, so people know I'm not just nagging for no reason
The catalogue and the image with two seals are completely separate topics. Fabrizio wrote (in Italian):
"That image was created in 2015 by my cousin Fabio Dal Molin, a well-known 3D image designer.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
He made it at my request, using photographs of the seal that was to be reconstructed in order to simulate the “litterae clausae” as an illustrative example, based on the instructions of the Italian State Archives. It was a 3D simulation of what the booklet might have looked like."
Hahaha, well that makes a LOT more sense. Thankyou. I thought it was weird.
I'll edit the post
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
Fabrizio Salani > 13-03-2026, 04:15 PM
(13-03-2026, 04:01 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I must clarify: the image of the sealed envelope is a 3D simulation created in 2015 to imagine what a closed Roman letter, "Litterae Clausae," might have looked like, sealed with a double seal, one of which was non-returnable (called: to loose). The catalog I purchased regarding the Voynich bookshop in Florence is something else entirely. It has nothing to do with the manuscript's history, which began in 1912, but it is important for understanding W.M. Voynich as an antiquarian bookseller.(16-09-2017, 10:03 PM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have aquired another piece of the Voynich puzzle (not with this parchment) in 2015 from an antiquarian bookseller in Florence, the 1908 catalogue of W. M. Voynich of his library in Florence. Thank to this book catalogue there is a connection between father J. Strickland and Voynich, we must think that the priest have contacted the book seller because it owned a famous library in Italy (ex Franceschini library in Florence).
Im confused. It was said that this book catalogue was acquired seperately from the copy page parchment, but it is an exact match with the back of the copy. Every line, crease, and mark is the same. I've roughly morphed the booklet from the laying down position, and you can see that it's the same piece of paper.
(13-03-2026, 03:04 PM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Spero che questo sia d'aiuto. Allego immagini ad alta risoluzione (600 DPI) della mia pergamena e un dettaglio del sigillo di cera.
Google Translate Wrote:I hope this helps. I've attached high-resolution (600 DPI) images of my parchment and a detail of the wax seal.
I very much appreciate the high resolution scans of both sides of the copy, and really appreciate the measurement tools being added!
Over the past 13 years, I have acquired other original documents about W.M. Voynich and the manuscript. I am publishing the catalog's cover image.
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
ReneZ > 13-03-2026, 11:04 PM
At the time I wrote that there are about 30 catalogues from Voynich, but the number is actually greater.
There are at least two series, and the one shown here appears separate from these series.
I have seen one page of yours, and this seems to be of printed books.
Does it contain any manuscripts? If so, how many? -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
Fabrizio Salani > 14-03-2026, 09:01 AM
(13-03-2026, 11:04 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.At the time I wrote that there are about 30 catalogues from Voynich, but the number is actually greater.
No, Renè, it does not contain manuscript books but only printed ones and those pertaining to the Florentine context and the only noteworthy printed book is the one catalogued at no. 266 at a cost of 400 francs (the most expensive in the catalogue) with a note, I imagine by Voynich himself, which intrigued me and pushed me to further research (which turned out to be incredible), concerning the discovery of America by Columbus, about which I was asked and I gave conferences on the subject... but that's another story.
There are at least two series, and the one shown here appears separate from these series.
I have seen one page of yours, and this seems to be of printed books.
Does it contain any manuscripts? If so, how many?
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
kckluge > 14-03-2026, 09:03 PM
(14-03-2026, 09:01 AM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, Renè, it does not contain manuscript books but only printed ones and those pertaining to the Florentine context and the only noteworthy printed book is the one catalogued at no. 266 at a cost of 400 francs (the most expensive in the catalogue) with a note, I imagine by Voynich himself, which intrigued me and pushed me to further research (which turned out to be incredible), concerning the discovery of America by Columbus, about which I was asked and I gave conferences on the subject... but that's another story.
A copy of the work in question is available on-line at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quoting your translation of the catalog entry (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.): "This passage clearly shows that they had full knowledge of the existence of extensive land in the Atlantic before Columbus returned from his first voyage. It is clear that this note does not refer to the Azores or other islands of Portugal. Considering the latest research by Henry Vignaud this fact is certainly very significant, however, as this is not the place to deal with such an argument, we leave any discussion to the authorities."
Whoever wrote that description for the catalog appears to have been gilding the lily a bit. According to a note in The Catholic Historical Review in 1940 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) while this is the earliest mention of the Americas in print, that reference was inserted into the text of the speech after it was given (and after Columbus had returned) while the text was being prepared for publication: "The first mention of America in print apparently appeared in Rome. On December 13, 1492, the Milanese envoy Jason de Mayno said in an oration delivered before Pope Alexander VI: 'Patria tibi est Hispania: cuius orientale et septentrionale latus Pyrenei montes undequaque includunt. Relique partes usque ad Herculeas Gades et Borealem Oceanum protenduntur.' This was the time-honored description of the boundaries of Spain, and the sentence in itself was of no particular importance. While the orator was preparing his manuscript for the press, Columbus returned from his first voyage (March, 1493) and the news of the discovery of America electrified the world. Naturally the Milanese envoy seized the opportunity of flattering the Spanish-born pope still more by adding to the above text: 'Quae in eo montium et oceani maris ambitu includuntur quasi alterum orbem facientia ad Hispaniam spectant: cuius latitudo et longitudo tam multa, tam ampla et tam immensa est ut plus habeat admirationis quam credulitatis. Interfluunt quam plures fluvii non solum navigabiles, sed auriferi, etc.' The oration with this reference to the newly discovered continent was printed at Rome by Stephen Plannck, who shortly after printed the first Latin translation of the Letter of Columbus. To all appearance the oration of Mayno antedates even the Spanish editions of Columbus' Letter, so that we have in it the first mention of the New World in print. At any rate the orator magnifying the newly discovered lands into a 'quasi alter orbis' came nearer the truth than Columbus himself, who speaks of islands, and never dreamed that he had discovered a new continent"
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
Fabrizio Salani > 14-03-2026, 11:54 PM
(14-03-2026, 09:03 PM)kckluge Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
To better understand the topic, I requested the digitization of the entire book from the University of Bologna library, which holds an intact copy (the cited pages are shown in the image). My research focused on Henry Vignaud (Jean-Héliodore Vignaud), a captain in the Confederate army and an Americanist, who fled to France in 1863 and became secretary to the American ambassador in Paris. In 1901 he published a book (which I managed to purchase in an antiquarian library in Canada) entitled: "La Lettre de Toscanelli du 25 juin 1474 sur la route des Indes par l'Ouest" where he questions the correspondence between Columbus and Toscanelli and the relative authenticity of the text, and in the book he publishes the letter transcribed in one of the books that Columbus brought with him during the voyage (Colombina Library of Seville - Spain, founded by his second son Fernando), but the handwriting is not Christopher Columbus's but his brother Bartolomeo's (in another image in the book, Vignaud compares the handwriting of the two Columbus brothers with the transcription of the letter attributed to Toscanelli)... but as I said, that's another story (not to mention the tombstone of Pope Innocent VIII(14-03-2026, 09:01 AM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, Renè, it does not contain manuscript books but only printed ones and those pertaining to the Florentine context and the only noteworthy printed book is the one catalogued at no. 266 at a cost of 400 francs (the most expensive in the catalogue) with a note, I imagine by Voynich himself, which intrigued me and pushed me to further research (which turned out to be incredible), concerning the discovery of America by Columbus, about which I was asked and I gave conferences on the subject... but that's another story.
A copy of the work in question is available on-line at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quoting your translation of the catalog entry (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.): "This passage clearly shows that they had full knowledge of the existence of extensive land in the Atlantic before Columbus returned from his first voyage. It is clear that this note does not refer to the Azores or other islands of Portugal. Considering the latest research by Henry Vignaud this fact is certainly very significant, however, as this is not the place to deal with such an argument, we leave any discussion to the authorities."
Whoever wrote that description for the catalog appears to have been gilding the lily a bit. According to a note in The Catholic Historical Review in 1940 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) while this is the earliest mention of the Americas in print, that reference was inserted into the text of the speech after it was given (and after Columbus had returned) while the text was being prepared for publication: "The first mention of America in print apparently appeared in Rome. On December 13, 1492, the Milanese envoy Jason de Mayno said in an oration delivered before Pope Alexander VI: 'Patria tibi est Hispania: cuius orientale et septentrionale latus Pyrenei montes undequaque includunt. Relique partes usque ad Herculeas Gades et Borealem Oceanum protenduntur.' This was the time-honored description of the boundaries of Spain, and the sentence in itself was of no particular importance. While the orator was preparing his manuscript for the press, Columbus returned from his first voyage (March, 1493) and the news of the discovery of America electrified the world. Naturally the Milanese envoy seized the opportunity of flattering the Spanish-born pope still more by adding to the above text: 'Quae in eo montium et oceani maris ambitu includuntur quasi alterum orbem facientia ad Hispaniam spectant: cuius latitudo et longitudo tam multa, tam ampla et tam immensa est ut plus habeat admirationis quam credulitatis. Interfluunt quam plures fluvii non solum navigabiles, sed auriferi, etc.' The oration with this reference to the newly discovered continent was printed at Rome by Stephen Plannck, who shortly after printed the first Latin translation of the Letter of Columbus. To all appearance the oration of Mayno antedates even the Spanish editions of Columbus' Letter, so that we have in it the first mention of the New World in print. At any rate the orator magnifying the newly discovered lands into a 'quasi alter orbis' came nearer the truth than Columbus himself, who speaks of islands, and never dreamed that he had discovered a new continent"
).