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The claimed Voynich page
- The claimed Voynich page
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
MarcoP > Today, 07:45 AM
(17-09-2017, 09:39 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."A G" = Aldo Gritti?
A scary possibility.
More probably a (big) coincidence.
Personally, I like this idea a lot.
The probability of the two initials matching by pure chance is less than 1%.
The book title and cover add one more big hint.
I understand the dates the two artifacts popped up are a third match?
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
Fabrizio Salani > Today, 09:15 AM
(Today, 07:45 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Yes, I know of the existence of this novel and the official biography of this author seems to me not really credible, and created on purpose to promote the 2012 novel (which honestly, I have never read):(17-09-2017, 09:39 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."A G" = Aldo Gritti?
A scary possibility.
More probably a (big) coincidence.
Personally, I like this idea a lot.
The probability of the two initials matching by pure chance is less than 1%.
The book title and cover add one more big hint.
I understand the dates the two artifacts popped up are a third match?
-"Aldo Gritti is the pseudonym of a young priest who received the documents relating to the Voynich Manuscript from his mentor, who repeatedly opposed his dissemination. The author of this book nevertheless intended to delve deeper into the subject and reveal its secrets, albeit in a fictionalized form. The truth is worth more than an identity."-
It was also claimed that he possessed secret documents that showed the MS was a W.M. Voynich forgery, as well as letters between Kircher, J.M. Marci, and Kinner.
So, assuming this parchment was created by him and then dispersed in an antiques market in a small Umbrian town (Narni) (why not in one of Rome's famous antiques markets?) with the hope that someone would find it and make it known. If he ever had this talent, it would have been better if he had devoted himself to reproducing ancient documents, because as far as I know the book was a flop.
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However anything can be. -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
Koen G > 11 hours ago
(16-09-2017, 10:03 PM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I contacted the owners of the firm and they told me that the shape of the seal represented in their web site is a wax seal commissioned by one of their customers (as they remeber) many years ago and the customer showed them a photo with an old seal taken from a document dated XVIII th century but since it was an old commission they don't have any other informations. The seals they produce are at least of 2,5 cm diameter, those on the parchment is 1,5 cm diameter, tipical size for a personal ring seal as told me the sphragistics experts of Italian State Archives.
I'm not sure if I buy the "custom design for a client" angle, though I see why the company prefers to give this explanation. The AG monogram is part of a series, with the same design elements returning regularly. For example, here is Design 1 of their "AL".
This leaves three options:
- The AG design happens to be the one they based the entire series on. Small chance, in my opinion. Also, if you did a monogram for a client, would you put it up for sale and base a product line around it?
- The AG design is part of an original series developed by this company. This is quite possible, the company has existed for a while (second generation owners if their bio is up to date), so maybe it is simply not known to the current owners how these designs came into being.
- This is all marketing talk and the design is part of a more widely disseminated stock among wax stamp makers.
- The AG design happens to be the one they based the entire series on. Small chance, in my opinion. Also, if you did a monogram for a client, would you put it up for sale and base a product line around it?
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RE: The claimed Voynich page
MarcoP > 11 hours ago
I have no idea of how Gritti's prop ended up in Narni, speculating about this sounds pointless. I see no reason to assume that it was deliberately "dispersed" there.
Personally, these two are the only examples of red wax seals on Voynich pages I have seen, and both are signed AG.
This closes the case for me. -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
ReneZ > 10 hours ago
I don't remember the context of the image of the book in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which has the file name 'litterae clause.jpg', which I also still have since Fabrizio sent it to me years ago.
This is not the catalogue of Voynich, is it?
It looks like something else.
Could this be the:
Quote:a photo with an old seal taken from a document dated XVIII th century
? -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
eggyk > 10 hours ago
(10 hours ago)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't remember the context of the image of the book in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which has the file name 'litterae clause.jpg', which I also still have since Fabrizio sent it to me years ago.
This is not the catalogue of Voynich, is it?
It looks like something else.
Could this be the:
Quote:a photo with an old seal taken from a document dated XVIII th century
?
The seals seem to be the same design. The image isn't high quality, so this is the best i could do.
(16-09-2017, 10:03 PM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Nick (Pelling) told to me about a firm in U.K. (Birmingham) that produce manually personalized wax seals and one of them is very similar to that of the parchment. I contacted the owners of the firm and they told me that the shape of the seal represented in their web site is a wax seal commissioned by one of their customers (as they remeber) many years ago and the customer showed them a photo with an old seal taken from a document dated XVIII th century but since it was an old commission they don't have any other informations.
It could be worth asking if the company based in stafford used to be based in birmingham. They are pretty close.
Edit: According to publicly available info on the company, it used to be located in Brierley Hill, and kingswinford before that, which are just west of birmingham. Using google maps streetview, the legal company that was on the street signage at the address in Brierley Hill also moved at the same time to the same new address as the seals company. That company was previously located in stourbridge.
For all intents and purposes, telling any international caller that they are based in "Birmingham" makes complete sense. It's probably the same company. -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
Koen G > 8 hours ago
(10 hours ago)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't remember the context of the image of the book in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which has the file name 'litterae clause.jpg', which I also still have since Fabrizio sent it to me years ago.
This is a mockup "photoshopped" image of Fabrizio's parchment as it would look if it were used in the way imagined: folded in half to contain other documents, with two ribbons keeping it closed and and a seal over each ribbon. (You can see it's a manipulated image since both ribbons are identical and also it's what Fabrizio said himself
)
The implication seems to be that someone thought it was a good idea to fold this potentially antique piece of parchment in half to use it as a binder. -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
Fabrizio Salani > 6 hours ago
[quote="ReneZ" pid='81274' dateline='1773394366']
Non ricordo il contesto dell'immagine del libro in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , che ha il nome file 'litterae clause.jpg', e che conservo ancora da quando Fabrizio me l'ha inviato anni fa.
Questo non è il catalogo di Voynich, vero?
Sembra qualcos'altro.
Potrebbe essere questo:
[citazione]
una foto con un antico sigillo tratto da un documento datato XVIII secolo
[/citazione]
?
[/citazione]
Quell'immagine è stata creata nel 2015 da mio cugino Fabio Dal Molin, un noto designer di immagini 3D.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
su mia indicazione e utilizzando foto del sigillo da ricostruire per simulare le "litterae clausae" come esempio esplicativo, basandomi sulle istruzioni dell'Archivio di Stato italiano. It was a 3D simulation of what the booklet might have looked like. -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
Fabrizio Salani > 6 hours ago
Spero che questo sia d'aiuto. Allego immagini ad alta risoluzione (600 DPI) della mia pergamena e un dettaglio del sigillo di cera. Una precisazione: come avrete notato, non ho mai pubblicato la composizione della cera del sigillo. Questo perché (come mi è stato consigliato di fare, per precauzione) se qualcuno dovesse mai rivendicare la proprietà della pergamena o affermare di averla realizzata, dovrebbe necessariamente fornire la prova dell'esatta composizione chimica e del processo di fabbricazione del sigillo e della colla, così come sono noti a me e ai professori che l'hanno esaminata in laboratorio.
[allegato=14603][allegato=14604][allegato=14605][allegato=14606]
(6 hours ago)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Spero che questo sia d'aiuto. Allego immagini ad alta risoluzione (600 DPI) della mia pergamena e un dettaglio del sigillo di cera. Una precisazione: come avrete notato, non ho mai pubblicato la composizione della cera del sigillo. Questo perché (come mi è stato consigliato di fare, per precauzione) se qualcuno dovesse mai rivendicare la proprietà della pergamena o affermare di averla realizzata, dovrebbe necessariamente fornire la prova dell'esatta composizione chimica e del processo di fabbricazione del sigillo e della colla, così come sono noti a me e ai professori che l'hanno esaminata in laboratorio.
[allegato=14603][allegato=14604][allegato=14605][allegato=14606] -
RE: The claimed Voynich page
Koen G > 6 hours ago
Hi Frabrizio, thank you for the additional images!
Could you please ensure that your posts are in English? This will make it easier for everyone to follow.
I did some digging on the origin of the seal, but I will make a new thread about this to keep it organized.